6 ms·

Why not using a web site built on postgres or mysql database to track balances then, instead of using blockchain and call the thing "cryptocurrency"?

by viach 9y ago

xaqfox 9y ago
One could argue that it offers more transparency.
- vec 9y ago
  Okay, then why not using a web site built on a SQL database with a read-only public login?
  - optimuspaul 9y ago
    the transparency is this case is more than just being seen, but also that it can be proven to not have been altered. (I think there are better ways to do this than a blockchain)
gowld 9y ago
Why is "Statistics" called "Machine Learning" ? $$hype$$
- make3 9y ago
  insinuating that the only reason people say machine learning and not statistics is just false. the term machine learning refers to a specific part of statistics that is very different from statistics as a whole.
  - rublev 9y ago
    He is making that exact point.
  - debt 9y ago
    hmm still sounds like statistics to me
    - make3 9y ago
      why are apple not just called fruits? because there is utility in calling apples apples and not just fruits, because we want to know specifically which subpart of the group fruits you are eating or there is in the pie, not because apples are so damn popular
  - laichzeit0 9y ago
    A lot of it is actually called Statistical Learning. Google that term. Some techniques are not classified as such, at least not yet, e.g. deep convolutional neural networks.
Pharaoh2 9y ago
Because this way you have a public ledger that can't be mutated without notifying the public. Not everything that blockchain gives is for the trust distributed use case. For that fact, proof of work is the only thing that is purely there because bitcoin's blockchain needs a distributed trust system.
- spookthesunset 9y ago
  > Because this way you have a public ledger that can't be mutated without notifying the public. Can't this be done with something like git?
  - Pharaoh2 9y ago
    Which is basically what a blockchain is... Just that instead of a cryptographically append-only acyclic directed graph, its a cryptographically append-only linked list.
chvid 9y ago
Because then it would be evident to anyone that you were running a pyramid scheme and law enforcement could shut you down by just closing down a single server?
- corv 9y ago
  What pyramid scheme?
- viach 9y ago
  Is it still applicable to NEM, as it's centralized?
labrador 9y ago
See Blockchain or Bullshit on Hackernoon: https://hackernoon.com/blockchain-or-bullshit-429653de42d3 https://hackernoon.com/blockchain-or-bullshit-429653de42d3
mikekchar 9y ago
Lots of companies do exactly this. For example, in Japan, where I live, the train and bus companies will give you a card. You can "put money" on the card and then spend it on travel. You can also use the cards to buy things in the convenience stores, some restaurants, vending machines, etc, etc. You can think of this as a "coin" that's pegged against prevailing currency (in my case, the yen). It's not a "cryptocoin" since there is no "crypto" involved, but as there is barely any "crypto" involved in cryptocoins anyway, I think that's a bit of a moot point. There are problems with this model. First you have to trust the central authority with your money. They could do a runner and there would be nothing you could do about it. In fact, when I lived in the UK, I discovered that London Transport often mischarges - it forgets where you "tapped in" or "tapped out" and charges you the maximum possible charge for your journey. In order to get your money back, you have to register your card and apply within a specific time period to get refunded. If you don't know the procedure, don't want to give out your person information, don't realise you were mischarged or wait too long -- sorry, your money is gone (Really big piece of advice for anyone using an Oyster card: Register it and check the charges every day. Unless things have gotten better in the last few years, I'm sure you will be extremely surprised at the charges). The problem here is that the payment processor has all the power in the transaction. They can just take your money if they feel like it. Also, they can refuse to pay for things if they feel like it. Finally, they are a single point of failure. If they have technical (or financial!) problems, then you may not be able to spend your money. Whether or not you assume initiatives like Bitcoin were started as a scam, the implementation potentially solves a lot of the problems of these payment processors. Importantly, if you put your coins in a central exchange you are right back to square one! No amount of crypto goodness will save you from the exchange shenanigans because they control your wallet. This is why things like the Lightning Network are interesting. It allows for centralised payment processors, but with distributed guarantees about who owns the coins and where and when they can spend them. I find it incredibly unfortunate that "cryptocoins" endure such incredible hype and involve so much real (and imagined) money. So many power plays, so many scams, so much FUD. But at the centre of it, these are interesting real problems. Once the dust settles it will be quite nice to see what useful results actually emerge.
- marcus_holmes 9y ago
zanny 9y ago
Because one gets millions in investor rounds and the other doesn't, regardless of technical merit. Dollar signs a person doesn't understand but sees as easy cash is the equivalent to a lightbulb being turned on amidst a swarm of insects.

Why not using a web site built on postgres or mysql database to track balances then, instead of using blockchain and call the thing "cryptocurrency"?

by viach 9y ago

Why not using a web site built on postgres or mysql database to track balances then, instead of using blockchain and call the thing "cryptocurrency"?

xaqfox 9y ago

One could argue that it offers more transparency.

vec 9y ago
Okay, then why not using a web site built on a SQL database with a read-only public login?
- optimuspaul 9y ago
  the transparency is this case is more than just being seen, but also that it can be proven to not have been altered. (I think there are better ways to do this than a blockchain)

gowld 9y ago

Why is "Statistics" called "Machine Learning" ? $$hype$$

make3 9y ago
insinuating that the only reason people say machine learning and not statistics is just false. the term machine learning refers to a specific part of statistics that is very different from statistics as a whole.
- rublev 9y ago
  He is making that exact point.
- debt 9y ago
  hmm still sounds like statistics to me
  - make3 9y ago
    why are apple not just called fruits? because there is utility in calling apples apples and not just fruits, because we want to know specifically which subpart of the group fruits you are eating or there is in the pie, not because apples are so damn popular
- laichzeit0 9y ago
  A lot of it is actually called Statistical Learning. Google that term. Some techniques are not classified as such, at least not yet, e.g. deep convolutional neural networks.

Pharaoh2 9y ago

Because this way you have a public ledger that can't be mutated without notifying the public. Not everything that blockchain gives is for the trust distributed use case. For that fact, proof of work is the only thing that is purely there because bitcoin's blockchain needs a distributed trust system.

spookthesunset 9y ago
> Because this way you have a public ledger that can't be mutated without notifying the public. Can't this be done with something like git?
- Pharaoh2 9y ago
  Which is basically what a blockchain is... Just that instead of a cryptographically append-only acyclic directed graph, its a cryptographically append-only linked list.

chvid 9y ago

Because then it would be evident to anyone that you were running a pyramid scheme and law enforcement could shut you down by just closing down a single server?

corv 9y ago
What pyramid scheme?
viach 9y ago
Is it still applicable to NEM, as it's centralized?

labrador 9y ago

See Blockchain or Bullshit on Hackernoon: https://hackernoon.com/blockchain-or-bullshit-429653de42d3 https://hackernoon.com/blockchain-or-bullshit-429653de42d3

mikekchar 9y ago

Lots of companies do exactly this. For example, in Japan, where I live, the train and bus companies will give you a card. You can "put money" on the card and then spend it on travel. You can also use the cards to buy things in the convenience stores, some restaurants, vending machines, etc, etc. You can think of this as a "coin" that's pegged against prevailing currency (in my case, the yen). It's not a "cryptocoin" since there is no "crypto" involved, but as there is barely any "crypto" involved in cryptocoins anyway, I think that's a bit of a moot point. There are problems with this model. First you have to trust the central authority with your money. They could do a runner and there would be nothing you could do about it. In fact, when I lived in the UK, I discovered that London Transport often mischarges - it forgets where you "tapped in" or "tapped out" and charges you the maximum possible charge for your journey. In order to get your money back, you have to register your card and apply within a specific time period to get refunded. If you don't know the procedure, don't want to give out your person information, don't realise you were mischarged or wait too long -- sorry, your money is gone (Really big piece of advice for anyone using an Oyster card: Register it and check the charges every day. Unless things have gotten better in the last few years, I'm sure you will be extremely surprised at the charges). The problem here is that the payment processor has all the power in the transaction. They can just take your money if they feel like it. Also, they can refuse to pay for things if they feel like it. Finally, they are a single point of failure. If they have technical (or financial!) problems, then you may not be able to spend your money. Whether or not you assume initiatives like Bitcoin were started as a scam, the implementation potentially solves a lot of the problems of these payment processors. Importantly, if you put your coins in a central exchange you are right back to square one! No amount of crypto goodness will save you from the exchange shenanigans because they control your wallet. This is why things like the Lightning Network are interesting. It allows for centralised payment processors, but with distributed guarantees about who owns the coins and where and when they can spend them. I find it incredibly unfortunate that "cryptocoins" endure such incredible hype and involve so much real (and imagined) money. So many power plays, so many scams, so much FUD. But at the centre of it, these are interesting real problems. Once the dust settles it will be quite nice to see what useful results actually emerge.

marcus_holmes 9y ago

zanny 9y ago

Because one gets millions in investor rounds and the other doesn't, regardless of technical merit. Dollar signs a person doesn't understand but sees as easy cash is the equivalent to a lightbulb being turned on amidst a swarm of insects.