5 ms·

I used to not mind Peterson because he seemed to help out young males find some direction in their life, but then he found out arguing with transpeople about pr

I used to not mind Peterson because he seemed to help out young males find some direction in their life, but then he found out arguing with transpeople about pronouns made him more money so he let himself be adopted by the far-right.

core-questions 9y ago
> but then he found out arguing with transpeople about pronouns made him more money so he let himself be adopted by the far-right. I don't think this is a fair characterization at all. The issue with pronouns is just a microcosm of a larger issue, which is not just the erosion of free speech, but the influx of compelled or forced speech, which is insidious and must be named and stopped early lest it gain more of a foothold. As for the alt-right - if you're going to make the argument that some group liking their interpretation of what you've said means that you're one of them, you've got an uphill battle ahead of you. It's plainly illogical to assert this.
juststuffyaknow 9y ago
His political views are literally on the left, he just doesn't think the government should be compelling speech of any kind. It's the slippery slope argument, which I'm sure some people here will argue is a logical fallacy.
tpkj 9y ago
From what I can tell, that assessment is unfair. I do not find him to be like the typical knee-jerk, reactionary talking-heads you see on CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc. His analysis has a broader, philosophical and historical perspective. Case in point: Postmodernism and Cultural Marxism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoG9zBvvLQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoG9zBvvLQ
- Compostmodern 9y ago
  His takes on postmodernism and the semi-fake concept of Cultural Marxism, while seemingly fancy and erudite, are deeply flawed and stem from bad or non-existent scholarship. That he uses this to flame his fandom is damning in my opinion. https://www.viewpointmag.com/2018/01/23/postmodernism-not-take-place-jordan-petersons-12-rules-life/ https://www.viewpointmag.com/2018/01/23/postmodernism-not-ta... Edit: "The ending quote on that article: Peterson’s attempt to buttress these reactionary positions with readings of contemporary philosophy, now preserved for posterity in the pages of 12 Rules for Life, is not without precedent. But the tendency finds its most thorough realization in his zealotry. Peterson goes beyond Lilla, Chomsky, and Buchanan, arguing that what he calls “postmodern philosophy” is not merely a symptom of social unease, but its cause. By charging this poorly defined discourse of postmodernism with shaping contemporary society and bending the arc of history, he is doing precisely what he has accused his adversaries of doing: imposing a world of ideas upon the actually existing world, one which is more complex than he has the ability to grasp."
- ZeroGravitas 9y ago
  I've not watched that particular video but weird conspiracy theories about postmodernism, Marxism and Jews have been a strong component of the right in the USA for decades. What really is the difference between between ex-Googler James Damore and the young man holding the sign saying "Communist Jews behind Race Mixing" in the civil rights era. Both seem like respectable members of their communities. Yet both think that social progress is actually a plot by evil-doers to destroy society because that is what their elders have taught them. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlQqukAaZj8iayLUzyk7kazJSeU3X2G_Sqk1Qy7NQ4OFTPSBwX https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlQquk... https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcWkHj1Fg7pxgm4dZTZbglm95IIz5VV0BlRo2GZ92veGCbTkI5 https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcWkHj... (Links via Google as some of the images are hosted on rs isn't sirescele rating "the good old days")
dogma1138 9y ago
He never argued with anyone about pronouns he was against legislating compelled speech especially when the definition and the interpretation of the law would be delegated to a non elected body outside of the judicial and legislative branch like the Ontario human’s rights commission. He never refused to call anyone by the pronouns of their choice nor he ever said that he wouldn’t do so.
- brucephillips 9y ago
  No, this isn't true. It's something Peterson now claims, but it's not true. Go to ~9:30 in this video: https://youtu.be/O-nvNAcvUPE https://youtu.be/O-nvNAcvUPE He claims that he wouldn't use preferred pronouns even if there was no law mandating it. I'm not condemning this choice, just pointing out the falsehood.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    I think you an I got a very different understanding of what was said and why it was said from the video.

core-questions 9y ago

> but then he found out arguing with transpeople about pronouns made him more money so he let himself be adopted by the far-right. I don't think this is a fair characterization at all. The issue with pronouns is just a microcosm of a larger issue, which is not just the erosion of free speech, but the influx of compelled or forced speech, which is insidious and must be named and stopped early lest it gain more of a foothold. As for the alt-right - if you're going to make the argument that some group liking their interpretation of what you've said means that you're one of them, you've got an uphill battle ahead of you. It's plainly illogical to assert this.

juststuffyaknow 9y ago

His political views are literally on the left, he just doesn't think the government should be compelling speech of any kind. It's the slippery slope argument, which I'm sure some people here will argue is a logical fallacy.

tpkj 9y ago

From what I can tell, that assessment is unfair. I do not find him to be like the typical knee-jerk, reactionary talking-heads you see on CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc. His analysis has a broader, philosophical and historical perspective. Case in point: Postmodernism and Cultural Marxism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoG9zBvvLQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoG9zBvvLQ

Compostmodern 9y ago
His takes on postmodernism and the semi-fake concept of Cultural Marxism, while seemingly fancy and erudite, are deeply flawed and stem from bad or non-existent scholarship. That he uses this to flame his fandom is damning in my opinion. https://www.viewpointmag.com/2018/01/23/postmodernism-not-take-place-jordan-petersons-12-rules-life/ https://www.viewpointmag.com/2018/01/23/postmodernism-not-ta... Edit: "The ending quote on that article: Peterson’s attempt to buttress these reactionary positions with readings of contemporary philosophy, now preserved for posterity in the pages of 12 Rules for Life, is not without precedent. But the tendency finds its most thorough realization in his zealotry. Peterson goes beyond Lilla, Chomsky, and Buchanan, arguing that what he calls “postmodern philosophy” is not merely a symptom of social unease, but its cause. By charging this poorly defined discourse of postmodernism with shaping contemporary society and bending the arc of history, he is doing precisely what he has accused his adversaries of doing: imposing a world of ideas upon the actually existing world, one which is more complex than he has the ability to grasp."
ZeroGravitas 9y ago
I've not watched that particular video but weird conspiracy theories about postmodernism, Marxism and Jews have been a strong component of the right in the USA for decades. What really is the difference between between ex-Googler James Damore and the young man holding the sign saying "Communist Jews behind Race Mixing" in the civil rights era. Both seem like respectable members of their communities. Yet both think that social progress is actually a plot by evil-doers to destroy society because that is what their elders have taught them. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlQqukAaZj8iayLUzyk7kazJSeU3X2G_Sqk1Qy7NQ4OFTPSBwX https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlQquk... https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcWkHj1Fg7pxgm4dZTZbglm95IIz5VV0BlRo2GZ92veGCbTkI5 https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcWkHj... (Links via Google as some of the images are hosted on rs isn't sirescele rating "the good old days")

dogma1138 9y ago

He never argued with anyone about pronouns he was against legislating compelled speech especially when the definition and the interpretation of the law would be delegated to a non elected body outside of the judicial and legislative branch like the Ontario human’s rights commission. He never refused to call anyone by the pronouns of their choice nor he ever said that he wouldn’t do so.

brucephillips 9y ago
No, this isn't true. It's something Peterson now claims, but it's not true. Go to ~9:30 in this video: https://youtu.be/O-nvNAcvUPE https://youtu.be/O-nvNAcvUPE He claims that he wouldn't use preferred pronouns even if there was no law mandating it. I'm not condemning this choice, just pointing out the falsehood.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  I think you an I got a very different understanding of what was said and why it was said from the video.