8 ms·

Apple Expands California Self-Driving Test Fleet to 27 Cars

64 points by KKKKkkkk1 9y ago

empath75 9y ago
To be honest, I'd be pretty happy if apple would just let me use google maps with carplay. Can we make that happen before we figure out robot cars, apple?
- atonse 9y ago
  Don't hold your breath. We'll all be forced to use apple maps until the end times. I mostly like CarPlay, but the navigation is the sticking point, not because the directions or metadata are bad, but because the search is so, so, so bad.
  - haikuginger 9y ago
    I've rented cars with CarPlay before; I find that the ideal way to go about it is to do a location search as I'm walking to the car and start navigation; once I plug in the phone and enter CarPlay, it picks up seamlessly onscreen.
    - Shivetya 9y ago
      Agree, getting to where you are going is much easier if you get into Apple Maps prior to engaging CarPlay. Recently I got trapped in a location that CarPlay would not let me out of but when I disconnected the phone from the car I could get back to entering my desired destination. I am not sure if UI elements went off screen or there is a bug/quirk when its active. However it selected a destination from ages for me when connected. I just find it odd than when I use CarPlay to play music the UI is actually worse than if I use the car's built in display to show what the phone/ipod is playing. It was like Atari 2600 vs modern display type differences
    - atonse 9y ago
      This is actually what I do. It works so well for text message interactions though (for me and my accent). I’ve had whole conversations with my wife only through Siri dictation and have come away mostly impressed.
  - sbr464 9y ago
    Agree, search is basically unusable, (drive off the road, dangerous unusable!)I was surprised when recently started using on our new development Honda Civic.
- sachleen 9y ago
  I can't speak on car play, but I switched back from GMaps to Apple. I hadn't used it since it first came out (when it sucked) but have found it's a lot better now. I especially like that it gives me the speed limit, a feature I wish Google had. I have removed Google Maps from my phone altogether now.
  - andy_ppp 9y ago
    I think outside of the US Apple Maps is still super average.
    - omnibrain 9y ago
      In Germany it works well. I actually think the lane indicators for navigation on the Autobahn are superior to Google Maps. If only I found a way to always have north up. I get super confused and lose orientation if my map is not properly aligned with north up.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
    - sambe 9y ago
      The last few times I've used it in Europa it's given me the wrong location for an address or missing places. I agree that seems better than it was originally, but it just can't compete in a lot of locations.
    - mstade 9y ago
      At best! I’ve tried for a long time to use it, but given up. It fails to find even well known locations in densely populated areas, directions are terrible, and in many cases you just get gray blobs where detail is crucial. I use the web version of google maps more often than not.
    - pwagland 9y ago
      The biggest problem with Apple maps is that it is terrible at working out where you want to go. You have to know the correct name that they have in their database. Google tends to have a lot more context, and so can often work out what you want, even if you don't know the exact name, and so can get you there. Assuming that you can find the address that you want, then Apple Maps if good enough.
- s3r3nity 9y ago
  As much as I want to agree with you, from a product perspective, it's problematic: do you offer only one option and give Google virtually a monopoly in the navigation market, or do you offer multiple options and potentially confuse users (a la the Paradox of Choice?)
  - larrik 9y ago
    What do you mean? I think it should offer you whatever navigation apps are installed on your phone that support it.
- spike021 9y ago
  Google Maps has been awful for me lately. Missing turns, not being forward enough (as in, telling me "turn left/right after the current turn). It also has given me completely wrong instructions on where to go at the end of the route to get to the destination, one time even getting me there, having me drive by it, then go a few blocks down a residential street, and say "you've arrived".. when I was clearly not at my destination. Might try Apple Maps again.
  - reaperducer 9y ago
    I've seen a similar problem with Google Maps navigation. Several times recently instead of being directed to a particular store in a strip mall, I'm directed to a residential street a block behind the strip mall and told I've arrived. Not sure why you got downvoted. Perhaps some Google devs can't take the heat.
  - LukaAl 9y ago
    I think they have a problem with the location database. For instance, the location of my home, according to GMaps, is not on my street but on the parallel one. They have probably tried to do some smart optimization and f*d up. The only issue is that there's no clear way to tell them they have made a mistake...
  - jacksmith21006 9y ago
    Try the use Apple maps from time to time and always go back to Google. Plus Google keeps adding and improving while Apple maps barely changes. https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat/ https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat/ Google Maps's Moat - Justin O'Beirne
- ritwikroy 9y ago
  I might be wrong, but I thought the issue was the Google Maps haven't built a CarPlay UI for their iOS app? Is it actually Apple that's preventing them from doing it?
  - Zhenya 9y ago
    IIRC, there is no api for third-party maps on iOS+CarPlay.
Fricken 9y ago
Project Titan is such a funny thing. Back when Chauffeur, Google's self driving car project was the only game in town, automakers found it pretty easy to dismiss, but when rumours of an autonomous Apple car began to circulate, the tone amongst car people began to shift. It's what got the automakers thinking "Is this self driving car jazz for real? Omg it might be for real! The tech companies are going to eat our lunch". It took the carmakers a while to figure out which way was up. The Germans spent $3 billion acquiring Here maps, which was a misfire. Tesla was quick to implement Mobileye's EyeQ3 chip and single camera system and then promptly burned their bridges with Mobileye by pushing the system's capabilities way beyond it's safe design constraints. Ironically, Apple had succumb to irrational exuberance themselves in moving so aggressively on Titan. Analysts notes a $10 billion dollar bump in Apple's R&D budget during the 2 years when Titan was big. Supposedly the project was a clusterfuck. Steve Zadesky, who was put in charge wanted to make a fairly conventional car with autonomous features, but Jony I've and a group of engineers were adamant about developing a robotaxi, which offered the best opportunity to "reinvent the mobility experience". They couldn't come to terms and executive leadership of Titan was broken from the start. So however much things were scaled back, the project definitely isn't dead. 27 test vehicles isn't small potatoes. Maybe Apple still intends to build their own vehicle, I guess we'll see.
- kaiby 9y ago
  They could've done a lot more if they were more focused, but that's not really how Apple works. They don't really research based on current technology, they like to spend time & money what could be invented. They even investigated things like "spherical wheels" [1]: > Apple even looked into reinventing the wheel. A team within Titan investigated the possibility of using spherical wheels — round like a globe — instead of the traditional, round ones, because spherical wheels could allow the car better lateral movement. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/22/technology/apple-self-driving-car.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/22/technology/apple-self-dri...
  - robotresearcher 9y ago
    In case anyone is excited about spherical wheels, they have been looked at many times. They have the unappealing feature that the area of tread making contact with the road is minimized, giving bad grip and high pressure. They are used occasionally in robotics on very hard, smooth, dry surfaces.
gxs 9y ago
It's kind of cool seeing tech behemoths battle each other. They aren't strapped for cash, hire brilliant people, so you really get to see the impact of different strategies and other factors at play. I'm, at least, enjoying the show.
curiouscat321 9y ago
It's interesting how the incumbent auto companies are competing with Apple/Google. They have a lot of ways to go to be able to compete for talent.

64 points by KKKKkkkk1 9y ago

To be honest, I'd be pretty happy if apple would just let me use google maps with carplay. Can we make that happen before we figure out robot cars, apple?

atonse 9y ago
Don't hold your breath. We'll all be forced to use apple maps until the end times. I mostly like CarPlay, but the navigation is the sticking point, not because the directions or metadata are bad, but because the search is so, so, so bad.
- haikuginger 9y ago
  I've rented cars with CarPlay before; I find that the ideal way to go about it is to do a location search as I'm walking to the car and start navigation; once I plug in the phone and enter CarPlay, it picks up seamlessly onscreen.
  - Shivetya 9y ago
    Agree, getting to where you are going is much easier if you get into Apple Maps prior to engaging CarPlay. Recently I got trapped in a location that CarPlay would not let me out of but when I disconnected the phone from the car I could get back to entering my desired destination. I am not sure if UI elements went off screen or there is a bug/quirk when its active. However it selected a destination from ages for me when connected. I just find it odd than when I use CarPlay to play music the UI is actually worse than if I use the car's built in display to show what the phone/ipod is playing. It was like Atari 2600 vs modern display type differences
  - atonse 9y ago
    This is actually what I do. It works so well for text message interactions though (for me and my accent). I’ve had whole conversations with my wife only through Siri dictation and have come away mostly impressed.
- sbr464 9y ago
  Agree, search is basically unusable, (drive off the road, dangerous unusable!)I was surprised when recently started using on our new development Honda Civic.
sachleen 9y ago
I can't speak on car play, but I switched back from GMaps to Apple. I hadn't used it since it first came out (when it sucked) but have found it's a lot better now. I especially like that it gives me the speed limit, a feature I wish Google had. I have removed Google Maps from my phone altogether now.
- andy_ppp 9y ago
  I think outside of the US Apple Maps is still super average.
  - omnibrain 9y ago
    In Germany it works well. I actually think the lane indicators for navigation on the Autobahn are superior to Google Maps. If only I found a way to always have north up. I get super confused and lose orientation if my map is not properly aligned with north up.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - sambe 9y ago
    The last few times I've used it in Europa it's given me the wrong location for an address or missing places. I agree that seems better than it was originally, but it just can't compete in a lot of locations.
  - mstade 9y ago
    At best! I’ve tried for a long time to use it, but given up. It fails to find even well known locations in densely populated areas, directions are terrible, and in many cases you just get gray blobs where detail is crucial. I use the web version of google maps more often than not.
  - pwagland 9y ago
    The biggest problem with Apple maps is that it is terrible at working out where you want to go. You have to know the correct name that they have in their database. Google tends to have a lot more context, and so can often work out what you want, even if you don't know the exact name, and so can get you there. Assuming that you can find the address that you want, then Apple Maps if good enough.
s3r3nity 9y ago
As much as I want to agree with you, from a product perspective, it's problematic: do you offer only one option and give Google virtually a monopoly in the navigation market, or do you offer multiple options and potentially confuse users (a la the Paradox of Choice?)
- larrik 9y ago
  What do you mean? I think it should offer you whatever navigation apps are installed on your phone that support it.
spike021 9y ago
Google Maps has been awful for me lately. Missing turns, not being forward enough (as in, telling me "turn left/right after the current turn). It also has given me completely wrong instructions on where to go at the end of the route to get to the destination, one time even getting me there, having me drive by it, then go a few blocks down a residential street, and say "you've arrived".. when I was clearly not at my destination. Might try Apple Maps again.
- reaperducer 9y ago
  I've seen a similar problem with Google Maps navigation. Several times recently instead of being directed to a particular store in a strip mall, I'm directed to a residential street a block behind the strip mall and told I've arrived. Not sure why you got downvoted. Perhaps some Google devs can't take the heat.
- LukaAl 9y ago
  I think they have a problem with the location database. For instance, the location of my home, according to GMaps, is not on my street but on the parallel one. They have probably tried to do some smart optimization and f*d up. The only issue is that there's no clear way to tell them they have made a mistake...
- jacksmith21006 9y ago
  Try the use Apple maps from time to time and always go back to Google. Plus Google keeps adding and improving while Apple maps barely changes. https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat/ https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat/ Google Maps's Moat - Justin O'Beirne
ritwikroy 9y ago
I might be wrong, but I thought the issue was the Google Maps haven't built a CarPlay UI for their iOS app? Is it actually Apple that's preventing them from doing it?
- Zhenya 9y ago
  IIRC, there is no api for third-party maps on iOS+CarPlay.

Fricken 9y ago

Project Titan is such a funny thing. Back when Chauffeur, Google's self driving car project was the only game in town, automakers found it pretty easy to dismiss, but when rumours of an autonomous Apple car began to circulate, the tone amongst car people began to shift. It's what got the automakers thinking "Is this self driving car jazz for real? Omg it might be for real! The tech companies are going to eat our lunch". It took the carmakers a while to figure out which way was up. The Germans spent $3 billion acquiring Here maps, which was a misfire. Tesla was quick to implement Mobileye's EyeQ3 chip and single camera system and then promptly burned their bridges with Mobileye by pushing the system's capabilities way beyond it's safe design constraints. Ironically, Apple had succumb to irrational exuberance themselves in moving so aggressively on Titan. Analysts notes a $10 billion dollar bump in Apple's R&D budget during the 2 years when Titan was big. Supposedly the project was a clusterfuck. Steve Zadesky, who was put in charge wanted to make a fairly conventional car with autonomous features, but Jony I've and a group of engineers were adamant about developing a robotaxi, which offered the best opportunity to "reinvent the mobility experience". They couldn't come to terms and executive leadership of Titan was broken from the start. So however much things were scaled back, the project definitely isn't dead. 27 test vehicles isn't small potatoes. Maybe Apple still intends to build their own vehicle, I guess we'll see.

kaiby 9y ago
They could've done a lot more if they were more focused, but that's not really how Apple works. They don't really research based on current technology, they like to spend time & money what could be invented. They even investigated things like "spherical wheels" [1]: > Apple even looked into reinventing the wheel. A team within Titan investigated the possibility of using spherical wheels — round like a globe — instead of the traditional, round ones, because spherical wheels could allow the car better lateral movement. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/22/technology/apple-self-driving-car.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/22/technology/apple-self-dri...
- robotresearcher 9y ago
  In case anyone is excited about spherical wheels, they have been looked at many times. They have the unappealing feature that the area of tread making contact with the road is minimized, giving bad grip and high pressure. They are used occasionally in robotics on very hard, smooth, dry surfaces.

gxs 9y ago

It's kind of cool seeing tech behemoths battle each other. They aren't strapped for cash, hire brilliant people, so you really get to see the impact of different strategies and other factors at play. I'm, at least, enjoying the show.

curiouscat321 9y ago

It's interesting how the incumbent auto companies are competing with Apple/Google. They have a lot of ways to go to be able to compete for talent.