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Ok, based on the replies I understand that many in this thread think white bigotry and other bigotry are equal. That's probably a mistake, but I can see why "fi

by aklemm 9y ago

Ok, based on the replies I understand that many in this thread think white bigotry and other bigotry are equal. That's probably a mistake, but I can see why "fire bigoted white men" is triggering so those who think that way.

ameister14 9y ago
You don't think white bigotry and other bigotry are equal? Absent power, why do you hold that view?
Veelox 9y ago
>Ok, based on the replies I understand that many in this thread think white bigotry and other bigotry are equal. This statement implies to me that you think white bigotry != bigotry. This is one of those statements that make me think "no rational caring individual could believe that" because it sounds racist against white people to begin with. Yet I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. Can you explain your mindset? Hopefully also how this mindset does not lead to treating people of different races differently or a justification for why it is okay to treat them different?
aklemm 9y ago
To answer both replies, I’m saying white bigotry stands out because white people have the power and numbers. Absent that, then you have a different story, but we’re not absent that.
- Veelox 9y ago
  I am sincerely trying to understand this line of thought. Is it that since white people have more power and more numbers we should focus extra hard on white bigotry? Starting with the assumption that all people should be treated equally than all bigotry is morally objectionable and we should treat all bigotry as such. The only issue that comes in is that since white people have the power and numbers white bigotry happens more than other bigotry and thus we by chance we object to it more. I don't see any way that this allows bigotry against whites to get a pass, it just gets called out less because it happens less. Am I missing something? I feel like I am because I still don't feel like I grok your responses.
  - aklemm 9y ago
    > Is it that since white people have more power and more numbers we should focus extra hard on white bigotry? Yes. > Starting with the assumption that all people should be treated equally than all bigotry is morally objectionable and we should treat all bigotry as such. Good assumption. I agree. > The only issue that comes in is that since white people have the power and numbers white bigotry happens more than other bigotry and thus we by chance we object to it more. I don't really understand this part, but I'll add that not only does it happen more, it is more damaging. A white bigot can get shit done. > I don't see any way that this allows bigotry against whites to get a pass, it just gets called out less because it happens less. I don't think it does allow bigotry against whites. I'm not worried much about bigotry against whites. Maybe I will be after white bigotry is reigned in a bit, but for now eyes on the ball. > Am I missing something? I feel like I am because I still don't feel like I grok your responses. I don't really know whether we disagree about something, everything, or nothing.
    - Veelox 9y ago
      >I don't think it does allow bigotry against whites. I'm not worried much about bigotry against whites. Maybe I will be after white bigotry is reigned in a bit, but for now eyes on the ball. Ahh, this I think is where I find issue. You say that you think all people should be treated equally and I see the statement I quoted as clashing with that ideal. Specifically saying "I'm not worried much about bigotry against whites." I am trying to be charitable but as a white person I would get roasted if I said "I'm not worried much about bigotry against blacks." This mismatch is what causes me to make me question your commitment to the ideal that all people should be treated equally. Because to me, if you really were committed to ending bigotry and promoting inclusion and diversity you would be equally enraged by bigotry by whites and bigotry against whites. Yet, that isn't the case. This puts me in a really hard spot because I want to believe you mean well but now I have to decide, are you lieing about your commitment to equality or do you have a valid reason to disregard bigotry against whites? I have yet to see a good argument for disregarding bigotry against whites so I am stuck with you are lieing. But I don't think you are...
      - 9y ago
- ameister14 9y ago
  If there's a hierarchy of power involved, why not focus on protecting those with the least power instead of policing the most powerful? That would allow for flexibility in dealing with inter and intra-racial/cultural/gender bigotry and decrease the most harm the fastest, wouldn't it?
- arkh 9y ago
  What about black bigotry against other blacks? People not from the same country or ethnicity for example. Should it be disregarded? What about a black person calling a North African one "sand nigger"? Or saying Mexicans are lazy?

by aklemm 9y ago

ameister14 9y ago

You don't think white bigotry and other bigotry are equal? Absent power, why do you hold that view?

Veelox 9y ago

>Ok, based on the replies I understand that many in this thread think white bigotry and other bigotry are equal. This statement implies to me that you think white bigotry != bigotry. This is one of those statements that make me think "no rational caring individual could believe that" because it sounds racist against white people to begin with. Yet I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. Can you explain your mindset? Hopefully also how this mindset does not lead to treating people of different races differently or a justification for why it is okay to treat them different?

aklemm 9y ago

To answer both replies, I’m saying white bigotry stands out because white people have the power and numbers. Absent that, then you have a different story, but we’re not absent that.

Veelox 9y ago
I am sincerely trying to understand this line of thought. Is it that since white people have more power and more numbers we should focus extra hard on white bigotry? Starting with the assumption that all people should be treated equally than all bigotry is morally objectionable and we should treat all bigotry as such. The only issue that comes in is that since white people have the power and numbers white bigotry happens more than other bigotry and thus we by chance we object to it more. I don't see any way that this allows bigotry against whites to get a pass, it just gets called out less because it happens less. Am I missing something? I feel like I am because I still don't feel like I grok your responses.
- aklemm 9y ago
  > Is it that since white people have more power and more numbers we should focus extra hard on white bigotry? Yes. > Starting with the assumption that all people should be treated equally than all bigotry is morally objectionable and we should treat all bigotry as such. Good assumption. I agree. > The only issue that comes in is that since white people have the power and numbers white bigotry happens more than other bigotry and thus we by chance we object to it more. I don't really understand this part, but I'll add that not only does it happen more, it is more damaging. A white bigot can get shit done. > I don't see any way that this allows bigotry against whites to get a pass, it just gets called out less because it happens less. I don't think it does allow bigotry against whites. I'm not worried much about bigotry against whites. Maybe I will be after white bigotry is reigned in a bit, but for now eyes on the ball. > Am I missing something? I feel like I am because I still don't feel like I grok your responses. I don't really know whether we disagree about something, everything, or nothing.
  - Veelox 9y ago
    >I don't think it does allow bigotry against whites. I'm not worried much about bigotry against whites. Maybe I will be after white bigotry is reigned in a bit, but for now eyes on the ball. Ahh, this I think is where I find issue. You say that you think all people should be treated equally and I see the statement I quoted as clashing with that ideal. Specifically saying "I'm not worried much about bigotry against whites." I am trying to be charitable but as a white person I would get roasted if I said "I'm not worried much about bigotry against blacks." This mismatch is what causes me to make me question your commitment to the ideal that all people should be treated equally. Because to me, if you really were committed to ending bigotry and promoting inclusion and diversity you would be equally enraged by bigotry by whites and bigotry against whites. Yet, that isn't the case. This puts me in a really hard spot because I want to believe you mean well but now I have to decide, are you lieing about your commitment to equality or do you have a valid reason to disregard bigotry against whites? I have yet to see a good argument for disregarding bigotry against whites so I am stuck with you are lieing. But I don't think you are...
    - 9y ago
ameister14 9y ago
If there's a hierarchy of power involved, why not focus on protecting those with the least power instead of policing the most powerful? That would allow for flexibility in dealing with inter and intra-racial/cultural/gender bigotry and decrease the most harm the fastest, wouldn't it?
arkh 9y ago
What about black bigotry against other blacks? People not from the same country or ethnicity for example. Should it be disregarded? What about a black person calling a North African one "sand nigger"? Or saying Mexicans are lazy?