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> Project management usually takes some fixed bundle of work and aims to ensure it is within scope, on time, on budget, to acceptable quality. And project mana

by dozzie 9y ago

> Project management usually takes some fixed bundle of work and aims to ensure it is within scope, on time, on budget, to acceptable quality. And project manager does that by what means? What useful things can a project manager do to achieve these goals? Barring telling the team how to do their work (micromanagement) and reordering project goals (this is supposed to be product manager's job).

rahimnathwani 9y ago
Your comment suggests that all work involved in delivering something is either (i) setting and prioritising goals, or (ii) doing the work to achieve those goals. But there are other things that a good project manager can do in some situations, particularly around driving consensus around coordination between different teams when things are changing a lot, and figuring out ways that re-allocating resources can unblock other teams, and so deliver the project earlier overall. BUT many people with the job title 'project manager' aren't really doing those things, either because those things don't need doing in the organization where they work, or because they lack the skills/drive to do them. Even if you haven't worked in a project that required a project manager, or met a good project manager, it doesn't mean these things don't exist. (I'm not a project manager btw, and the things a project manager needs to do are not among my favourite tasks, although I do them when required.)
- dozzie 9y ago
  So it's a list of things that may be done if we have an (almost mythical) good manager at hand and the organization in the company is right? Not a list of concrete responsibilities that just come with the position and if the guy doesn't fulfil them he's outright incompetent? Then again, what is the difference between fundamental responsibilities of project and product manager? The ones that need to be done by one and cannot be done by the other.
  - rahimnathwani 9y ago
    Just like not every situation requires a bricklayer, and not every person claiming to be a bricklayer is actually competent at building walls. Your second question is answered here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16240377 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16240377
jacques_chester 9y ago
I think this is a bit of a false dichotomy. You can investigate, coordinate and herd cats without micromanaging. I don't see construction managers telling brickies how to spread mortar, but they will keep an eye on the rate of bricklaying and ask what's happening when it falls below normal.

by dozzie 9y ago

rahimnathwani 9y ago

Your comment suggests that all work involved in delivering something is either (i) setting and prioritising goals, or (ii) doing the work to achieve those goals. But there are other things that a good project manager can do in some situations, particularly around driving consensus around coordination between different teams when things are changing a lot, and figuring out ways that re-allocating resources can unblock other teams, and so deliver the project earlier overall. BUT many people with the job title 'project manager' aren't really doing those things, either because those things don't need doing in the organization where they work, or because they lack the skills/drive to do them. Even if you haven't worked in a project that required a project manager, or met a good project manager, it doesn't mean these things don't exist. (I'm not a project manager btw, and the things a project manager needs to do are not among my favourite tasks, although I do them when required.)

dozzie 9y ago
So it's a list of things that may be done if we have an (almost mythical) good manager at hand and the organization in the company is right? Not a list of concrete responsibilities that just come with the position and if the guy doesn't fulfil them he's outright incompetent? Then again, what is the difference between fundamental responsibilities of project and product manager? The ones that need to be done by one and cannot be done by the other.
- rahimnathwani 9y ago
  Just like not every situation requires a bricklayer, and not every person claiming to be a bricklayer is actually competent at building walls. Your second question is answered here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16240377 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16240377

jacques_chester 9y ago

I think this is a bit of a false dichotomy. You can investigate, coordinate and herd cats without micromanaging. I don't see construction managers telling brickies how to spread mortar, but they will keep an eye on the rate of bricklaying and ask what's happening when it falls below normal.