4 ms·

The outlets who published this news (Volkskrant and NOS) are reliable, and even the responsible minister has more-or-less confirmed the story. Of course, this

The outlets who published this news (Volkskrant and NOS) are reliable, and even the responsible minister has more-or-less confirmed the story. Of course, this news comes at a time when there is a (non-binding) ballot coming about dragnet surveillance here. So clearly this news is helpful for some parties.

neinnein 9y ago
Reliable.. LOL.
jacquesm 9y ago
Keep in mind that the story broke in the United States first because someone could not keep their mouth shut, effectively destroying this operation.
the-dude 9y ago
NOS is our public broadcaster and is by definition not independent. Volkskrant is known to fabricate fake news long before the word existed ( i.e. the 'Martel hoax' )
- apexalpha 9y ago
  You're pretty foolish to make such blatant statements without any source to back it up. Just because the NOS is a public broadcaster doesn't mean they're not independnant. Actually by law the goverment has no say in it's content and it is in no way beholden to corporate interests since it is a non-profit that doesn't need ads.
  - Yetanfou 9y ago
    While the law states NOS (or rather NPO) has to be independent from government interference reality shows another picture, just like it does in other countries - Sweden being a good example. In both cases - NOS in the Netherlands, SVT (Sveriges Television) and SR (Sveriges Radio) in Sweden - these companies have a distinct political signature which is not representative for the public they are supposed to represent. A case study by Kent Asp, professor of journalism at the University of Gothenburg titled "journalistkårens partisympatier' (journalist's party affiliations) [1] clearly shows this in that the majority of journalists working for the public broadcasters identify with two of the parties to the extreme left of the spectrum ('miljöpartiet' (greens) and 'vänsterpartiet' ('left-wing party', they originally called themselves 'vänsterpartiet kommunisterna' (left-wing party communists) but changed their moniker with the fall of the wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union)). While these two parties currently are supported by about 12% of the population at large they garner around 77% of votes among journalists working for the public broadcasters. Add the support for the social democratic party (around 12%, this is actually far lower than the support for that party among the population (around 20%-25%)) and it becomes clear that journalists working for public broadcasters are far more left-leaning than the general population. There are many other sources [2][3] to back up these claims. The situation with the Dutch public broadcaster seems to be slightly different due to the way this institution has grown from formerly independent broadcasters but the results are comparable [4]. So while these public broadcasters are not beholden to corporate interests and not dependent on advertising - they are financed by fees and taxes - they do have other affiliations and as such can not been seen as 'independent'. [1] https://jmg.gu.se/digitalAssets/1284/1284227_nr38.pdf https://jmg.gu.se/digitalAssets/1284/1284227_nr38.pdf [2] https://www.svt.se/opinion/svt-och-sr-dags-att-erkanna-era-partisympatier https://www.svt.se/opinion/svt-och-sr-dags-att-erkanna-era-p... [3] http://magasinetneo.se/okategoriserade/jo-den-svenska-journalistkaren-ar-gron/ http://magasinetneo.se/okategoriserade/jo-den-svenska-journa... [4] https://www.elsevierweekblad.nl/nederland/blog/2017/08/kan-shula-rijxman-npo-een-beetje-dimmen-536249 https://www.elsevierweekblad.nl/nederland/blog/2017/08/kan-s...
    - the-dude 9y ago
      Thank you.
- acdha 9y ago
  Do you have any citations on that? Remember, “fake news” doesn’t mean “the story wasn’t good for my political side” or “a reporter made a mistake” but rather the blatant attempt to pass propaganda off as accurate without correction. Real news organizations aren’t perfect but they do retract stories and fire people.

neinnein 9y ago

Reliable.. LOL.

jacquesm 9y ago

Keep in mind that the story broke in the United States first because someone could not keep their mouth shut, effectively destroying this operation.

the-dude 9y ago

NOS is our public broadcaster and is by definition not independent. Volkskrant is known to fabricate fake news long before the word existed ( i.e. the 'Martel hoax' )

apexalpha 9y ago
You're pretty foolish to make such blatant statements without any source to back it up. Just because the NOS is a public broadcaster doesn't mean they're not independnant. Actually by law the goverment has no say in it's content and it is in no way beholden to corporate interests since it is a non-profit that doesn't need ads.
- Yetanfou 9y ago
  While the law states NOS (or rather NPO) has to be independent from government interference reality shows another picture, just like it does in other countries - Sweden being a good example. In both cases - NOS in the Netherlands, SVT (Sveriges Television) and SR (Sveriges Radio) in Sweden - these companies have a distinct political signature which is not representative for the public they are supposed to represent. A case study by Kent Asp, professor of journalism at the University of Gothenburg titled "journalistkårens partisympatier' (journalist's party affiliations) [1] clearly shows this in that the majority of journalists working for the public broadcasters identify with two of the parties to the extreme left of the spectrum ('miljöpartiet' (greens) and 'vänsterpartiet' ('left-wing party', they originally called themselves 'vänsterpartiet kommunisterna' (left-wing party communists) but changed their moniker with the fall of the wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union)). While these two parties currently are supported by about 12% of the population at large they garner around 77% of votes among journalists working for the public broadcasters. Add the support for the social democratic party (around 12%, this is actually far lower than the support for that party among the population (around 20%-25%)) and it becomes clear that journalists working for public broadcasters are far more left-leaning than the general population. There are many other sources [2][3] to back up these claims. The situation with the Dutch public broadcaster seems to be slightly different due to the way this institution has grown from formerly independent broadcasters but the results are comparable [4]. So while these public broadcasters are not beholden to corporate interests and not dependent on advertising - they are financed by fees and taxes - they do have other affiliations and as such can not been seen as 'independent'. [1] https://jmg.gu.se/digitalAssets/1284/1284227_nr38.pdf https://jmg.gu.se/digitalAssets/1284/1284227_nr38.pdf [2] https://www.svt.se/opinion/svt-och-sr-dags-att-erkanna-era-partisympatier https://www.svt.se/opinion/svt-och-sr-dags-att-erkanna-era-p... [3] http://magasinetneo.se/okategoriserade/jo-den-svenska-journalistkaren-ar-gron/ http://magasinetneo.se/okategoriserade/jo-den-svenska-journa... [4] https://www.elsevierweekblad.nl/nederland/blog/2017/08/kan-shula-rijxman-npo-een-beetje-dimmen-536249 https://www.elsevierweekblad.nl/nederland/blog/2017/08/kan-s...
  - the-dude 9y ago
    Thank you.
acdha 9y ago
Do you have any citations on that? Remember, “fake news” doesn’t mean “the story wasn’t good for my political side” or “a reporter made a mistake” but rather the blatant attempt to pass propaganda off as accurate without correction. Real news organizations aren’t perfect but they do retract stories and fire people.