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While I agree if the meeting is important - often one can’t help but be dragged to meetings that are run poorly. Or situations where ones input is only valuabl

While I agree if the meeting is important - often one can’t help but be dragged to meetings that are run poorly. Or situations where ones input is only valuable for a limited period of time or around a certain subject matter. If it’s an hour long meeting and management or project managers have organised it - chances are I’ll have my laptop with me and I’ll be getting things done. Of course I don’t turn up with my laptop open, not only would that be rude it would also be presumptuous as to the quality of the meeting. However, if the content of that meeting turns out to be fluff - I’ll be working on being productive rather than watching slides of information that could have been emailed.

Cthulhu_ 9y ago
In that last case, apply the law of two feet and just leave - and make it so that anyone can do that if the meeting is just someone trying to be relevant and showing off powerpoint-fu.
- vog 9y ago
  Note that this works only well if the law of two feet has been established prior to the meeting. Otherwise, you should politely ask if you are still needed, wait for the "no", and only then leave. Among others, this avoids awkward situations where you are needed 5 minutes later, and people have to wait for you to come back. In that case, your behaviour would be (rightfully) perceived as passive-aggressive rather than constructive.
  - pjc50 9y ago
    Indeed. Someone did that in a meeting I was in and was informed (not by me) that if he did it again he would be subject to disciplinary procedures.
  - jackpeterfletch 9y ago
    > Otherwise, you should politely ask if you are still needed, wait for the "no", and only then leave. Pretty much hit the nail on the head. So much passive aggression, frustration, and abrasiveness injected into the work environment just because people don't have the face to say "Hey guys, if theres nothing else for me/for me to add here im going to drop off the call/go back to my desk." I do this in about 30% of the meetings im in, probably twice in 5 years someones said they'd actually like me for something they were going to lead onto, and both times it was genuine. Also, if you run a meeting, and you move onto something that doesnt need all parties, you can just say "So we're going to move onto X, you guys might not be so interested in so feel free to leave, unless of course you want to stay" Never any hard feelings either way. It just business.
    - ryandrake 9y ago
      In a perfect world, yes, we should all be empowered to be grown-ups and excuse ourselves from meetings that are useless. For run-of-the-mill useless meetings it's probably good general advice. There's often more to it than whether you have something to add to the meeting: Sometimes the meeting has no clear agenda, and it's unknown whether you will be needed to contribute. Since you're peripherally involved with the project you're invited. The conversation may flow to some topic you need to weigh in on. These are bad meetings of course but they happen. Sometimes you're simply expected to be present at a meeting even though you have nothing to contribute and there's nothing to take away that won't be in the e-mailed meeting notes. Your silent attendance is what's important, not whether you're engaged. In these cases, if you don't show up or heaven forbid, walk out mid-way, it will be noticed and you might face disciplinary action. Sometimes you're working for a company where face time is important, so you'll have these meetings with the top brass and everyone tries to get an invitation, yet they just sit there doing work with their laptops open throughout. The goal is that the exec sees you and there's a chance he will know your face/name at some point. It's silly but welcome to corporate politics.
watwut 9y ago
> However, if the content of that meeting turns out to be fluff - I’ll be working on being productive rather than watching slides of information that could have been emailed. What about asking to leave the meeting (with polite apologize/explanation)? Meetings converge toward useless when people never say openly that they think they are not needed.
- carlmr 9y ago
  It often starts with a meeting being called with too many people and no clear agenda. If you waste 10 people's time with your meeting, you better have an idea what's so important that it costs 10 man hours.
  - watwut 9y ago
    Which is why excusing yourself openly from that meeting (before or during) makes more sense and is good for company culture in long term. Frankly, we talk about how important it is for people to be able to speak rudely or express their political opinions in work, but the whole thing oddly stops when it comes to cold calm organizational "I think I don't need to be here".
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      I don't think I agree with the proposition that people need to be empowered to be rude at work.
      - carlmr 9y ago
        I'm not sure if you, and the above poster, agree on what it means to be rude. I wouldn't like rudeness at work either, I think what the above commenter meant is more boldness to speak up and say that you want to leave, which should be the norm. Not yelling at someone and then leaving, which would be rude.
dazc 9y ago
'.. and management or project managers have organised it - chances are I’ll have my laptop with me and I’ll be performing work.' Do the managers never pick-up on these subtle clues that, maybe, the people in their meetings are not taking them seriously?
- pjc50 9y ago
  Performing work. Not necessarily doing work, but doing the performance of work visibly where it can be seen. That's why senior managers like open plan offices.

Cthulhu_ 9y ago

In that last case, apply the law of two feet and just leave - and make it so that anyone can do that if the meeting is just someone trying to be relevant and showing off powerpoint-fu.

vog 9y ago
Note that this works only well if the law of two feet has been established prior to the meeting. Otherwise, you should politely ask if you are still needed, wait for the "no", and only then leave. Among others, this avoids awkward situations where you are needed 5 minutes later, and people have to wait for you to come back. In that case, your behaviour would be (rightfully) perceived as passive-aggressive rather than constructive.
- pjc50 9y ago
  Indeed. Someone did that in a meeting I was in and was informed (not by me) that if he did it again he would be subject to disciplinary procedures.
- jackpeterfletch 9y ago
  > Otherwise, you should politely ask if you are still needed, wait for the "no", and only then leave. Pretty much hit the nail on the head. So much passive aggression, frustration, and abrasiveness injected into the work environment just because people don't have the face to say "Hey guys, if theres nothing else for me/for me to add here im going to drop off the call/go back to my desk." I do this in about 30% of the meetings im in, probably twice in 5 years someones said they'd actually like me for something they were going to lead onto, and both times it was genuine. Also, if you run a meeting, and you move onto something that doesnt need all parties, you can just say "So we're going to move onto X, you guys might not be so interested in so feel free to leave, unless of course you want to stay" Never any hard feelings either way. It just business.
  - ryandrake 9y ago
    In a perfect world, yes, we should all be empowered to be grown-ups and excuse ourselves from meetings that are useless. For run-of-the-mill useless meetings it's probably good general advice. There's often more to it than whether you have something to add to the meeting: Sometimes the meeting has no clear agenda, and it's unknown whether you will be needed to contribute. Since you're peripherally involved with the project you're invited. The conversation may flow to some topic you need to weigh in on. These are bad meetings of course but they happen. Sometimes you're simply expected to be present at a meeting even though you have nothing to contribute and there's nothing to take away that won't be in the e-mailed meeting notes. Your silent attendance is what's important, not whether you're engaged. In these cases, if you don't show up or heaven forbid, walk out mid-way, it will be noticed and you might face disciplinary action. Sometimes you're working for a company where face time is important, so you'll have these meetings with the top brass and everyone tries to get an invitation, yet they just sit there doing work with their laptops open throughout. The goal is that the exec sees you and there's a chance he will know your face/name at some point. It's silly but welcome to corporate politics.

watwut 9y ago

> However, if the content of that meeting turns out to be fluff - I’ll be working on being productive rather than watching slides of information that could have been emailed. What about asking to leave the meeting (with polite apologize/explanation)? Meetings converge toward useless when people never say openly that they think they are not needed.

carlmr 9y ago
It often starts with a meeting being called with too many people and no clear agenda. If you waste 10 people's time with your meeting, you better have an idea what's so important that it costs 10 man hours.
- watwut 9y ago
  Which is why excusing yourself openly from that meeting (before or during) makes more sense and is good for company culture in long term. Frankly, we talk about how important it is for people to be able to speak rudely or express their political opinions in work, but the whole thing oddly stops when it comes to cold calm organizational "I think I don't need to be here".
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    I don't think I agree with the proposition that people need to be empowered to be rude at work.
    - carlmr 9y ago
      I'm not sure if you, and the above poster, agree on what it means to be rude. I wouldn't like rudeness at work either, I think what the above commenter meant is more boldness to speak up and say that you want to leave, which should be the norm. Not yelling at someone and then leaving, which would be rude.

dazc 9y ago

'.. and management or project managers have organised it - chances are I’ll have my laptop with me and I’ll be performing work.' Do the managers never pick-up on these subtle clues that, maybe, the people in their meetings are not taking them seriously?

pjc50 9y ago
Performing work. Not necessarily doing work, but doing the performance of work visibly where it can be seen. That's why senior managers like open plan offices.