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> "Let's imagine that my child is at a party or other social engagement and they want deniable reason to escape. [0] There may be excessive peer pressure, illeg

> "Let's imagine that my child is at a party or other social engagement and they want deniable reason to escape. [0] There may be excessive peer pressure, illegal activity, or any other pre-arranged reason they may need to bail on something without incurring the loss of face that could be socially devastating." In that case, I would imagine the child's parents failed in teaching the values of both honesty and courage. Lying is often easier in the short term, but it leads to worse outcomes over time in all but the rarest of situations (e.g. you're hiding Anne Frank and soldiers knock at the door). Having a great excuse is useful today, but having a spine is useful for all one's days.

icebraining 9y ago
"(...) None of us could live with an habitual truth-teller; but thank goodness none of us has to. An habitual truth-teller is simply an impossible creature; he does not exist; he never has existed. Of course there are people who think they never lie, but it is not so—and this ignorance is one of the very things that shame our so-called civilization. Everybody lies—every day; every hour; awake; asleep; in his dreams; in his joy; in his mourning; if he keeps his tongue still, his hands, his feet, his eyes, his attitude, will convey deception—and purposely. (...)" Mark Twain, On the Decay of the Art of Lying (http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2572/pg2572.html http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2572/pg2572.html)
- whatyoucantsay 9y ago
  I prefer Kant.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Doesn't Kant go against your example of Anne Frank? ("To be truthful (honest) in all declarations is therefore a sacred command of reason prescribing unconditionally, one not to be restricted by any conveniences"). Surely a teenager telling white lies to pushy peers is preferable.
    - whatyoucantsay 9y ago
      Yes, Kant does. I'm not an absolute Kantian by any means, but I do prefer Kant to Twain. This isn't to say I dislike Twain, though. > Surely a teenager telling white lies to pushy peers is preferable. That's not sure by any means. In fact, the habit of telling "white lies" is almost certainly harmful in the long run. The same is true for caving to pushy peers.

icebraining 9y ago

"(...) None of us could live with an habitual truth-teller; but thank goodness none of us has to. An habitual truth-teller is simply an impossible creature; he does not exist; he never has existed. Of course there are people who think they never lie, but it is not so—and this ignorance is one of the very things that shame our so-called civilization. Everybody lies—every day; every hour; awake; asleep; in his dreams; in his joy; in his mourning; if he keeps his tongue still, his hands, his feet, his eyes, his attitude, will convey deception—and purposely. (...)" Mark Twain, On the Decay of the Art of Lying (http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2572/pg2572.html http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2572/pg2572.html)

whatyoucantsay 9y ago
I prefer Kant.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Doesn't Kant go against your example of Anne Frank? ("To be truthful (honest) in all declarations is therefore a sacred command of reason prescribing unconditionally, one not to be restricted by any conveniences"). Surely a teenager telling white lies to pushy peers is preferable.
  - whatyoucantsay 9y ago
    Yes, Kant does. I'm not an absolute Kantian by any means, but I do prefer Kant to Twain. This isn't to say I dislike Twain, though. > Surely a teenager telling white lies to pushy peers is preferable. That's not sure by any means. In fact, the habit of telling "white lies" is almost certainly harmful in the long run. The same is true for caving to pushy peers.