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It needs to work for all countries, not just the US. Please continue your explanation.

by natch 9y ago

lern_too_spel 9y ago
All countries with a government have a warrant system. Please explain your point.
- natch 9y ago
  As I said: What if corrupt, evil, law enforcement working with corrupt, evil, judges are able to issue warrants and read whatever they want, whenever they want? I think the problem I see is in there somewhere. Did I state it poorly? How could I state it better?
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    The point is they already can. You're proposing to change the status quo in every functioning government on the planet. Since these people are ultimately controlled by the voters, they are ultimately acting to fulfill the will of the voters.
    - natch 9y ago
      No, they can't, at least that's what they're telling us. Some devices, they haven't been able to get into. That is the status quo. Being able to crack properly done, effectively unbreakable encryption is not the status quo, it's a fantasy. And voting? You are assuming democracy. Also you're forgetting about the tyranny of the majority. If you aren't even going to read what I'm saying, let's just stop here.
      - lern_too_spel 9y ago
        You act like encryption is the default state. It isn't. An officer with a warrant has access to your written records in your home and stored with third parties. Why is access to encrypted data magically different and somehow magically overreach where all previous access wasn't?
        natch 9y ago
        >You act like encryption is the default state. It isn't. It wasn't the default state. Past tense. You're taking a very 1980's view. The world has moved on. Sure, there are some types of data that are not yet protected, but that's a deficiency which should be corrected with time. >Why is access to encrypted data magically different Nothing magic about it, but it's different for a couple of reasons. First, because a smartphone is more like an extension of your brain than it is like a file cabinet. Second, because in the old paper world you imagine (or pretend?) we still live in, the entities interested in accessing people's private data didn't have the internet, so they would have to by necessity go to one house at a time to get written records. Now, they do have the internet, and they can hoover up everything. And they do. "They" meaning not necessarily good guys. Sometimes there are rogue cops, or haven't you heard? Not to mention black hat hackers. So, because of this extraordinary change in how data can be accessed in bulk, and the personal nature of devices, private data needs better protection. Not magic. Just different times, with different snooping tools, different data, and different devices. So much has changed, you might as well ask what hasn't changed.
        lern_too_spel 9y ago
        Why does encryption magically make a phone an extension of your brain when before device encryption, it wasn't? What do black hats and rogue cops have to do with warrants? Your arguments are all over the place.

It needs to work for all countries, not just the US. Please continue your explanation.

by natch 9y ago

It needs to work for all countries, not just the US. Please continue your explanation.

lern_too_spel 9y ago

All countries with a government have a warrant system. Please explain your point.

natch 9y ago
As I said: What if corrupt, evil, law enforcement working with corrupt, evil, judges are able to issue warrants and read whatever they want, whenever they want? I think the problem I see is in there somewhere. Did I state it poorly? How could I state it better?
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  The point is they already can. You're proposing to change the status quo in every functioning government on the planet. Since these people are ultimately controlled by the voters, they are ultimately acting to fulfill the will of the voters.
  - natch 9y ago
    No, they can't, at least that's what they're telling us. Some devices, they haven't been able to get into. That is the status quo. Being able to crack properly done, effectively unbreakable encryption is not the status quo, it's a fantasy. And voting? You are assuming democracy. Also you're forgetting about the tyranny of the majority. If you aren't even going to read what I'm saying, let's just stop here.
    - lern_too_spel 9y ago
      You act like encryption is the default state. It isn't. An officer with a warrant has access to your written records in your home and stored with third parties. Why is access to encrypted data magically different and somehow magically overreach where all previous access wasn't?
      - natch 9y ago
        >You act like encryption is the default state. It isn't. It wasn't the default state. Past tense. You're taking a very 1980's view. The world has moved on. Sure, there are some types of data that are not yet protected, but that's a deficiency which should be corrected with time. >Why is access to encrypted data magically different Nothing magic about it, but it's different for a couple of reasons. First, because a smartphone is more like an extension of your brain than it is like a file cabinet. Second, because in the old paper world you imagine (or pretend?) we still live in, the entities interested in accessing people's private data didn't have the internet, so they would have to by necessity go to one house at a time to get written records. Now, they do have the internet, and they can hoover up everything. And they do. "They" meaning not necessarily good guys. Sometimes there are rogue cops, or haven't you heard? Not to mention black hat hackers. So, because of this extraordinary change in how data can be accessed in bulk, and the personal nature of devices, private data needs better protection. Not magic. Just different times, with different snooping tools, different data, and different devices. So much has changed, you might as well ask what hasn't changed.
        lern_too_spel 9y ago
        Why does encryption magically make a phone an extension of your brain when before device encryption, it wasn't? What do black hats and rogue cops have to do with warrants? Your arguments are all over the place.