4 ms·

Let's imagine that my child is at a party or other social engagement and they want deniable reason to escape. [0] There may be excessive peer pressure, illegal

by gknoy 9y ago

Let's imagine that my child is at a party or other social engagement and they want deniable reason to escape. [0] There may be excessive peer pressure, illegal activity, or any other pre-arranged reason they may need to bail on something without incurring the loss of face that could be socially devastating. If I have my phone, they can text me with some pre-arranged message ("x"), and I will feign an emergency and get them out of the situation ASAP (or arrange for a friend to do similarly). Sure, they could just leave (or get a taxi?), but having a GTFO script lets them exit a situation without the social losses of having been perceived as "too scared" to cave to peer pressure. They can say, "My dad just called and said something major just came up, and he's on his way to get me. Yeah, I know, parents, right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" If their phone is locked up (or mine) there's a lot more friction to that interaction. 0: https://bertfulks.com/2017/02/23/x-plan-giving-your-kids-a-way-out-xplan/ https://bertfulks.com/2017/02/23/x-plan-giving-your-kids-a-w...

BHSPitMonkey 9y ago
So, during those times when you're "on call" and need to be responsive to such events, you have to make the decision not to go on camping trips or flights or no-phone events like this one. Right?
- mschuster91 9y ago
  With kids you are always "on call".
  - BHSPitMonkey 9y ago
    So your position is that with kids at home, you can't be doing things that cause you to be unavailable/unreachable for durations of time longer than some threshold. Nothing wrong with that. The kinds of recreational events that conflict with that restriction are generally easy to spot ahead of time, and no one's compelling you to participate in them.
whatyoucantsay 9y ago
> "Let's imagine that my child is at a party or other social engagement and they want deniable reason to escape. [0] There may be excessive peer pressure, illegal activity, or any other pre-arranged reason they may need to bail on something without incurring the loss of face that could be socially devastating." In that case, I would imagine the child's parents failed in teaching the values of both honesty and courage. Lying is often easier in the short term, but it leads to worse outcomes over time in all but the rarest of situations (e.g. you're hiding Anne Frank and soldiers knock at the door). Having a great excuse is useful today, but having a spine is useful for all one's days.
- icebraining 9y ago
  "(...) None of us could live with an habitual truth-teller; but thank goodness none of us has to. An habitual truth-teller is simply an impossible creature; he does not exist; he never has existed. Of course there are people who think they never lie, but it is not so—and this ignorance is one of the very things that shame our so-called civilization. Everybody lies—every day; every hour; awake; asleep; in his dreams; in his joy; in his mourning; if he keeps his tongue still, his hands, his feet, his eyes, his attitude, will convey deception—and purposely. (...)" Mark Twain, On the Decay of the Art of Lying (http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2572/pg2572.html http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2572/pg2572.html)
  - whatyoucantsay 9y ago
    I prefer Kant.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      Doesn't Kant go against your example of Anne Frank? ("To be truthful (honest) in all declarations is therefore a sacred command of reason prescribing unconditionally, one not to be restricted by any conveniences"). Surely a teenager telling white lies to pushy peers is preferable.
      - 9y ago
ballenf 9y ago
I don't get the perspective of people who want to have kids and ask the world to accommodate them so that they don't have to make any sacrifices along the way. Going to an event where you won't have access to your phone is maybe something you can't do while having kids of a certain age. But they'll grow up and then you can again. It's kind of selfish to ask that no musician have this policy because you want to be able to attend any concert you wish while having young children.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
whywhywhywhy 9y ago
Why even let them leave the house if the world is such a horrible and dangerous place. Seems like bad parenting if you're knowingly putting in situations where such horrors exist that they'd need to escape them.

by gknoy 9y ago

BHSPitMonkey 9y ago

So, during those times when you're "on call" and need to be responsive to such events, you have to make the decision not to go on camping trips or flights or no-phone events like this one. Right?

mschuster91 9y ago
With kids you are always "on call".
- BHSPitMonkey 9y ago
  So your position is that with kids at home, you can't be doing things that cause you to be unavailable/unreachable for durations of time longer than some threshold. Nothing wrong with that. The kinds of recreational events that conflict with that restriction are generally easy to spot ahead of time, and no one's compelling you to participate in them.

whatyoucantsay 9y ago

> "Let's imagine that my child is at a party or other social engagement and they want deniable reason to escape. [0] There may be excessive peer pressure, illegal activity, or any other pre-arranged reason they may need to bail on something without incurring the loss of face that could be socially devastating." In that case, I would imagine the child's parents failed in teaching the values of both honesty and courage. Lying is often easier in the short term, but it leads to worse outcomes over time in all but the rarest of situations (e.g. you're hiding Anne Frank and soldiers knock at the door). Having a great excuse is useful today, but having a spine is useful for all one's days.

icebraining 9y ago
"(...) None of us could live with an habitual truth-teller; but thank goodness none of us has to. An habitual truth-teller is simply an impossible creature; he does not exist; he never has existed. Of course there are people who think they never lie, but it is not so—and this ignorance is one of the very things that shame our so-called civilization. Everybody lies—every day; every hour; awake; asleep; in his dreams; in his joy; in his mourning; if he keeps his tongue still, his hands, his feet, his eyes, his attitude, will convey deception—and purposely. (...)" Mark Twain, On the Decay of the Art of Lying (http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2572/pg2572.html http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2572/pg2572.html)
- whatyoucantsay 9y ago
  I prefer Kant.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Doesn't Kant go against your example of Anne Frank? ("To be truthful (honest) in all declarations is therefore a sacred command of reason prescribing unconditionally, one not to be restricted by any conveniences"). Surely a teenager telling white lies to pushy peers is preferable.
    - 9y ago

ballenf 9y ago

I don't get the perspective of people who want to have kids and ask the world to accommodate them so that they don't have to make any sacrifices along the way. Going to an event where you won't have access to your phone is maybe something you can't do while having kids of a certain age. But they'll grow up and then you can again. It's kind of selfish to ask that no musician have this policy because you want to be able to attend any concert you wish while having young children.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

whywhywhywhy 9y ago

Why even let them leave the house if the world is such a horrible and dangerous place. Seems like bad parenting if you're knowingly putting in situations where such horrors exist that they'd need to escape them.