4 ms·

Someone tries to make this plea in every thread, but it's bunk and shows an ignorance of history, an ignorance of the concrete figures actually at play, and it

Someone tries to make this plea in every thread, but it's bunk and shows an ignorance of history, an ignorance of the concrete figures actually at play, and it helps perpetuate the image of a frail non-profit that Mozilla really rides hard, piggybacking on the circumstances and accumulated goodwill from an era that no longer matches reality today. Mozilla in 2018 brings in 10 times as much revenue as it did in 2008, but is 1/10th as effective and doing 1/10th as much good work. 0307ea7a0f89f4c893e89e6a4992b82b1a812c22e9510410f9e4279a52368d04

nkkollaw 9y ago
What's "0307ea7a0f89f4c893e89e6a4992b82b1a812c22e9510410f9e4279a52368d04"..? A checksum of your comment?
- StavrosK 9y ago
  It's a commitment hash. He wants to be noted as saying something without saying it right now. When he does say it, you can verify that he had the comment ready now by checking the hash. Its for predictions you only want to reveal after they happen.
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    No way, that is so cool..! Thanks for explaining.
    - StavrosK 9y ago
      No problem!
lakechfoma 9y ago
And again, your comment is just anger and not an actual answer of what alternatives there are. What is your point? Do you care to actually answer my curiosity on what business models besides advertising are available to fund the continuing development of Firefox?
- carussell 9y ago
  > your comment is just anger As the author of the comment, I don't think so. (And I think my interpretation has more weight.) > What is your point? Do you care to actually answer my curiosity on what business models besides advertising are available to fund the continuing development of Firefox? I made it very clear in my original comment. A sustainable model existed 10 years ago—when Firefox was consequently an effective instrument for actually advancing the mission, and the way the project was managed was an example of the right way to run a project. And that model still exists. Since then, though, Mozilla has thrown the mission and principles half out the window while simultaneously asserting a defense that they need to make money. Hearing this plea after what Mozilla has done is like going to a burger joint you really like and being told that they had to raise prices because all burgers now come with a special ingredient, and the special ingredient is spit.
  - lakechfoma 9y ago
    Your point is not at all obvious, you're just saying "they used to be better, now they're spitting in my food gahh"
    - carussell 9y ago
      When you read my comments, are you ignoring every fourth sentence or something? Mozilla is not in a downward spiral due to money. We are not in a situation where Mozilla leadership must decide to jump and hope to survive, or don't jump and be burned alive. Mozilla is in a better financial position than it was 10 years ago; its year-over-year expenses vs support is stable, while in absolute terms they're bringing in much more and have half a billion USD in assets.
jccalhoun 9y ago
>1/10th as effective and doing 1/10th as much good work. [citation needed]
- carussell 9y ago
  Let's suppose there is no published source to corroborate the statement I wrote. Is the statement ipso facto untrue? Alternatively, let's say there's a source, but I don't provide it. Does that effect whether my statement is true or not true? Thirdly, now let's suppose there's a source available, they've measured it, found a result that agrees with what I wrote, and I offer it up. Now what happens? Does that change anything for you? Do you say, "Oh, when I wrote [citation needed] before, what I really meant is that I disagreed with you and was trying to express that through a sideways remark. I've considered the information in the source you provided, though, and have now adjusted my mental model accordingly." I just want your answers before I invest any significant effort into trawling through data and putting work into a response. Otherwise, it would just be a massive waste of time on my part, right?
  - brewdad 9y ago
    For future reference, you could save everyone some time and just say that you made up the numbers.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - jccalhoun 9y ago
    Without evidence there is no way to evaluate the credibility of the claim.
    - carussell 9y ago
      The general tone of your two comments is that I've been disingenuous, when the real disservice to the conversation is the zero-effort, thread-derailing snark. Here's a more verbose way to say exactly the same point I was making, but possibly (hopefully) less susceptible to zero-effort dismissals from the kinds of people who like scoring easy points by taking potshots against auxiliary details instead of taking the main thrust of the argument into consideration: "Mozilla in 2018 brings in 10 times as much revenue as it did in 2008. Is it 10 times as effective and doing 10 times as much good work? The same as before? Or is it closer to 1/10 for both?"

nkkollaw 9y ago

What's "0307ea7a0f89f4c893e89e6a4992b82b1a812c22e9510410f9e4279a52368d04"..? A checksum of your comment?

StavrosK 9y ago
It's a commitment hash. He wants to be noted as saying something without saying it right now. When he does say it, you can verify that he had the comment ready now by checking the hash. Its for predictions you only want to reveal after they happen.
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  No way, that is so cool..! Thanks for explaining.
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    No problem!

lakechfoma 9y ago

And again, your comment is just anger and not an actual answer of what alternatives there are. What is your point? Do you care to actually answer my curiosity on what business models besides advertising are available to fund the continuing development of Firefox?

carussell 9y ago
> your comment is just anger As the author of the comment, I don't think so. (And I think my interpretation has more weight.) > What is your point? Do you care to actually answer my curiosity on what business models besides advertising are available to fund the continuing development of Firefox? I made it very clear in my original comment. A sustainable model existed 10 years ago—when Firefox was consequently an effective instrument for actually advancing the mission, and the way the project was managed was an example of the right way to run a project. And that model still exists. Since then, though, Mozilla has thrown the mission and principles half out the window while simultaneously asserting a defense that they need to make money. Hearing this plea after what Mozilla has done is like going to a burger joint you really like and being told that they had to raise prices because all burgers now come with a special ingredient, and the special ingredient is spit.
- lakechfoma 9y ago
  Your point is not at all obvious, you're just saying "they used to be better, now they're spitting in my food gahh"
  - carussell 9y ago
    When you read my comments, are you ignoring every fourth sentence or something? Mozilla is not in a downward spiral due to money. We are not in a situation where Mozilla leadership must decide to jump and hope to survive, or don't jump and be burned alive. Mozilla is in a better financial position than it was 10 years ago; its year-over-year expenses vs support is stable, while in absolute terms they're bringing in much more and have half a billion USD in assets.

jccalhoun 9y ago

>1/10th as effective and doing 1/10th as much good work. [citation needed]

carussell 9y ago
Let's suppose there is no published source to corroborate the statement I wrote. Is the statement ipso facto untrue? Alternatively, let's say there's a source, but I don't provide it. Does that effect whether my statement is true or not true? Thirdly, now let's suppose there's a source available, they've measured it, found a result that agrees with what I wrote, and I offer it up. Now what happens? Does that change anything for you? Do you say, "Oh, when I wrote [citation needed] before, what I really meant is that I disagreed with you and was trying to express that through a sideways remark. I've considered the information in the source you provided, though, and have now adjusted my mental model accordingly." I just want your answers before I invest any significant effort into trawling through data and putting work into a response. Otherwise, it would just be a massive waste of time on my part, right?
- brewdad 9y ago
  For future reference, you could save everyone some time and just say that you made up the numbers.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- jccalhoun 9y ago
  Without evidence there is no way to evaluate the credibility of the claim.
  - carussell 9y ago
    The general tone of your two comments is that I've been disingenuous, when the real disservice to the conversation is the zero-effort, thread-derailing snark. Here's a more verbose way to say exactly the same point I was making, but possibly (hopefully) less susceptible to zero-effort dismissals from the kinds of people who like scoring easy points by taking potshots against auxiliary details instead of taking the main thrust of the argument into consideration: "Mozilla in 2018 brings in 10 times as much revenue as it did in 2008. Is it 10 times as effective and doing 10 times as much good work? The same as before? Or is it closer to 1/10 for both?"