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In 2014, Stripe gave Stellar a $3 million loan in exchange for 2 billion lumens, which is now worth around $2 billion. They still have those lumens. I wonder wh

by solean 9y ago

In 2014, Stripe gave Stellar a $3 million loan in exchange for 2 billion lumens, which is now worth around $2 billion. They still have those lumens. I wonder why they would drop bitcoin support and start pushing Stellar...

stale2002 9y ago
They dropped Bitcoin because transaction fees are really high, and the bitcoin core team has no intention of solving the problem. Maybe in 18 months, when the mythical lightning network gets released they will add it back. But not now.
- sonoffett 9y ago
  You do realize that there are literally people buying coffee in meatspace today using lightning? https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/955870434230132736 https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/955870434230132736
  - zerostar07 9y ago
    is it being used to transfer funds from one exchange to the other? because tbh that seems to be the #1 utility of cryptocoins at the moment.
  - tobltobs 9y ago
    From your link: > but it's just a test version so it could easily break. > There’s no mainnet wallets available for regular users, but you can try testnet. > This is all a work in progress, Somewhere in a lab on this planet they might have a flying car, that doesn't mean you can use one any time soon.
  - stale2002 9y ago
    The literal lightning network developers do not recommend that you use lighting right now because you could lose money. When the actual devs tell me not to use a buggy, in working, piece of software, I am going to listen to them.
- wyldfire 9y ago
  > no intention of solving the problem. I was starting to grow pretty concerned but clearly segwit and LN have made enough progress that fees have dropped to ~10sat/byte. [1] That is dirt cheap. [1] https://bitcoinfees.earn.com https://bitcoinfees.earn.com
  - keymone 9y ago
    i don't think LN has had a chance to make any impact yet and segwit's adoption could be better though it does help. main reason for the drop imo is the end of the hype cycle: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=bitcoin https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=bitcoin Edit: typo
    - wyldfire 9y ago
      Fair enough, you may be right.
nileshtrivedi 9y ago
> 2 billion lumens, which is now worth around $2 billion That's a bit exaggerated. Lumens are currently trading at $0.58 and such a big sale would have a high impact cost too.
- pitaj 9y ago
  Only if you sell them all at once
  - swsieber 9y ago
    Only if you sell them all in your lifetime, I would bet.
- AceJohnny2 9y ago
  Indeed, this is my biggest issue with all the market-cap numbers we keep seeing. The market-cap is a made-up number calculated by (current_price x num_tokens). Except that current_price isn't fixed and the buying and selling will change it. You aren't selling to an infinite buyer market either, so you can't just sell everything at once to extract that value in one go.
  - donquichotte 9y ago
    I agree that this is problematic, but aren't companies valued the same way? I.e. num_shares x share_price? Similar issues apply there.
    - empath75 9y ago
      except amazon stock represents ownership of a corporation with assets that have value.
      - bringtheaction 9y ago
        > digital things can't have value because they aren't real That's basically what you are saying. Here's the thing though. Crypto currencies can have lots of uses. And even "simple" ones "only" made for payment like XLM and XRB have a value when they let me transact fast and cheaply. I look forward to a future where my money is mine. Where no bank can arbitrarily decide to FREEZE MY FUNDS that I have LOANED TO THEM. The banking system is broken. Sure it gives us some nice things in return like fraud protection. But increasingly I begin to wonder whether the advantages of trad-banks are worth giving them control over my money, and increasingly the answer seems to me to be no.
bushido 9y ago
Per Stripe's original announcement[0] in 2014 – the net profits from any sale go back to the Stellar Foundation: >> When the opportunity arose to help Stellar, we enthusiastically agreed. A couple of months ago, Stripe contributed $3M to help get the project going. In return, we received 2% of the stellars. However, the project is not run by Stripe. We just believe that a system with properties like Stellar's should exist in the world, and we heartily encourage anyone interested to participate in its development. We're going to auction a majority of our stellars to other interested companies, with any net profits being returned to the Stellar Foundation [0] https://stripe.com/blog/stellar https://stripe.com/blog/stellar
- aaronmarks 9y ago
  Doesn't say the net profits from "any sale" go to the Stellar Foundation, only the net profits from the "auction [of] a majority of [their] stellars." Presumably they could sell for profit their 1 billion stellars for profit without violating this pledge.
loceng 9y ago
Ah, that answers my question as to whether Stellar is a blockchain structured to be a Ponzi-Pyramid scheme..

by solean 9y ago

stale2002 9y ago

They dropped Bitcoin because transaction fees are really high, and the bitcoin core team has no intention of solving the problem. Maybe in 18 months, when the mythical lightning network gets released they will add it back. But not now.

sonoffett 9y ago
You do realize that there are literally people buying coffee in meatspace today using lightning? https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/955870434230132736 https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/955870434230132736
- zerostar07 9y ago
  is it being used to transfer funds from one exchange to the other? because tbh that seems to be the #1 utility of cryptocoins at the moment.
- tobltobs 9y ago
  From your link: > but it's just a test version so it could easily break. > There’s no mainnet wallets available for regular users, but you can try testnet. > This is all a work in progress, Somewhere in a lab on this planet they might have a flying car, that doesn't mean you can use one any time soon.
- stale2002 9y ago
  The literal lightning network developers do not recommend that you use lighting right now because you could lose money. When the actual devs tell me not to use a buggy, in working, piece of software, I am going to listen to them.
wyldfire 9y ago
> no intention of solving the problem. I was starting to grow pretty concerned but clearly segwit and LN have made enough progress that fees have dropped to ~10sat/byte. [1] That is dirt cheap. [1] https://bitcoinfees.earn.com https://bitcoinfees.earn.com
- keymone 9y ago
  i don't think LN has had a chance to make any impact yet and segwit's adoption could be better though it does help. main reason for the drop imo is the end of the hype cycle: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=bitcoin https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=bitcoin Edit: typo
  - wyldfire 9y ago
    Fair enough, you may be right.

nileshtrivedi 9y ago

> 2 billion lumens, which is now worth around $2 billion That's a bit exaggerated. Lumens are currently trading at $0.58 and such a big sale would have a high impact cost too.

pitaj 9y ago
Only if you sell them all at once
- swsieber 9y ago
  Only if you sell them all in your lifetime, I would bet.
AceJohnny2 9y ago
Indeed, this is my biggest issue with all the market-cap numbers we keep seeing. The market-cap is a made-up number calculated by (current_price x num_tokens). Except that current_price isn't fixed and the buying and selling will change it. You aren't selling to an infinite buyer market either, so you can't just sell everything at once to extract that value in one go.
- donquichotte 9y ago
  I agree that this is problematic, but aren't companies valued the same way? I.e. num_shares x share_price? Similar issues apply there.
  - empath75 9y ago
    except amazon stock represents ownership of a corporation with assets that have value.
    - bringtheaction 9y ago
      > digital things can't have value because they aren't real That's basically what you are saying. Here's the thing though. Crypto currencies can have lots of uses. And even "simple" ones "only" made for payment like XLM and XRB have a value when they let me transact fast and cheaply. I look forward to a future where my money is mine. Where no bank can arbitrarily decide to FREEZE MY FUNDS that I have LOANED TO THEM. The banking system is broken. Sure it gives us some nice things in return like fraud protection. But increasingly I begin to wonder whether the advantages of trad-banks are worth giving them control over my money, and increasingly the answer seems to me to be no.

bushido 9y ago

Per Stripe's original announcement[0] in 2014 – the net profits from any sale go back to the Stellar Foundation: >> When the opportunity arose to help Stellar, we enthusiastically agreed. A couple of months ago, Stripe contributed $3M to help get the project going. In return, we received 2% of the stellars. However, the project is not run by Stripe. We just believe that a system with properties like Stellar's should exist in the world, and we heartily encourage anyone interested to participate in its development. We're going to auction a majority of our stellars to other interested companies, with any net profits being returned to the Stellar Foundation [0] https://stripe.com/blog/stellar https://stripe.com/blog/stellar

aaronmarks 9y ago
Doesn't say the net profits from "any sale" go to the Stellar Foundation, only the net profits from the "auction [of] a majority of [their] stellars." Presumably they could sell for profit their 1 billion stellars for profit without violating this pledge.

loceng 9y ago

Ah, that answers my question as to whether Stellar is a blockchain structured to be a Ponzi-Pyramid scheme..