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> My goodness, all those people who went to concerts before cell phones must have been so hardcore, taking risks like that. I get the point you're trying to ma

> My goodness, all those people who went to concerts before cell phones must have been so hardcore, taking risks like that. I get the point you're trying to make, but to me this just reads like gatekeeping. Cell phones are useful and they can make people safer. In a world with cell phones not having timely access to one is riskier. In a world without cell phones it's a moot point. The more interesting issue -- which others in this thread are discussing -- is whether the benefits of having a cell phone outweigh the harms people can cause with them, and whether policy can help strike an appropriate balance.

ghaff 9y ago
I'd argue it's more comfort that you can be reached or reach someone than actual safety. But I don't really disagree with your broader point. This system doesn't seem very practical for a whole range of issues. Plenty of other live events have policies against recording and cell phone use and don't seem to have any serious problems enforcing those policies (or, indeed, need to do much "enforcement" at all). Perhaps rock concerts are different because of the type of crowd.
cglace 9y ago
What type of information would you receive on your phone during a concert that would make you safer? I'm honestly curious.
- throwaway43532 9y ago
  "Hey throwaway43532, [PERSON] just found out you're at [PLACE] and is on their way with a weapon. I contacted the authorities, but you need to get out of there now!" might be a severe example. There are many situations where a cell phone can allow you to send or receive information that could tip the scales in your favor.
  - paublyrne 9y ago
    The possibility of me ever getting a message remotely like that is so remote that the very idea could power the infinite improbability drive and take me to the restaurant at the end of the universe.
  - nicky0 9y ago
    If you live inside a Hollywood action movie, yes.
    - thecatspaw 9y ago
      "hey the dangerous stalker you have had since 5 years found out you are going to this concert." Does it still sound like hollywood?
      - nicky0 9y ago
        Yes it does.
      - gkya 9y ago
        Is the audience one person?
      - culot 9y ago
        Translation: I'm unwilling to put down my phone, and I will conjure any number of nightmare scenarios to justify my addiction. Or, perhaps, some people are truly terrified to be away from their smartphones. That is itself a scary thought. If a person's smartphone is removed from the picture for some reason, how would they be able to function? If the cell network went down, would the crowd descend into mindless chaos? There are no more pay phones, no more cozy landlines, so how would people manage if there were an emergency?
jonnycomputer 9y ago
I was being curmudgeonly. Sure, cell phones can contribute to personal safety; whether it actually does in a standing-room-only rock concert given the distribution of risks one is likely to encounter in that context is another matter. I have a hard time imagining one, except a medical emergency, maybe? Except that having people find security might truly be more expedient. Besides, I cam imagine real harm. Everyone simultaneously receiving a false alarm that a ballistic missile is headed there way might actually cause Widespread Panic to come out and play an encore.
- nicky0 9y ago
  Having a phone makes people feel safe. Whether it makes them actually safer, I don't think so.
- lotharbot 9y ago
  > "I have a hard time imagining one" Someone mentioned above that, in the event of a fire alarm and being separated from your group, being able to reconnect with them is important. Particularly for vulnerable people (whether due to age, health reasons, or being someone who might be targeted for violence or harassment), being separated from your group for a long time can be a safety issue.
  - DrScump 9y ago
    being able to reconnect with them is important Wouldn't you all be meeting at the place where you reclaim your phones anyway?
    - lotharbot 9y ago
      in the context of having to leave the building due to a fire alarm, no, you're not meeting them back inside the building at the phone re-collection point (or in this case one of the phone unlock mechanisms). At least not immediately. As I mentioned in another comment, it's possible you've never taken someone with a disability or social dysfunction to their first-ever concert, knowing that it's partly enabled by the fact that you can easily reconnect if you get separated (by the crowd, bathroom lines, a fire alarm, etc.) Take away that extra measure of safety and security, and the majority of people can "just deal with it", but people with certain disabilities or vulnerabilities are going to have to opt out. Personally, I'd rather work to be inclusive. Use social norms, not technological lockouts, to get people to put their phones away.
potta_coffee 9y ago
Do you think maybe the security guards and other personnel at the venue might have access to phones? Do you think that you in particular are going to be the last resort that manages to reach 911 when nobody else can? It's a weird train of thought to me. Venues are required to have their ducks in a row - emergency plans in place, etc. You not having your phone during the show is not a safety concern.
- gknoy 9y ago
  If a fire breaks out and I have to evacuate a venue, there is a _distinct_ difference in the effect on me if I have to have had my phone locked up. In one case, I leave the facility, get to safety, and then _go home_ (eventually), at which point I have my phone. In the other case, I leave the facility, get to safety, but my phone is either destroyed, or in a pile with 900 other concert-goers' phones, and I need to either wait around (in a place where emergency services probably don't want extra people), or _replace my destroyed phone_. No thanks, I'll keep my phone in my pocket or backpack, and have it with me when I leave with no extra effort. If necessary, this will mean skipping any concerts or similar where that's an issue.
  - whatyoucantsay 9y ago
    > In the other case, I leave the facility, get to safety, but my phone is either destroyed, or in a pile with 900 other concert-goers' phones, and I need to either wait around (in a place where emergency services probably don't want extra people), or _replace my destroyed phone_. You should check out how Yondr works: https://www.overyondr.com/howitworks/ https://www.overyondr.com/howitworks/ The phone stays with you.
    - user9182031 9y ago
      Wow, this looks super neat. How does it work in practice?
  - nicky0 9y ago
    Perhaps you should have read the article. The phone is locked up in a pouch your pocket.

ghaff 9y ago

I'd argue it's more comfort that you can be reached or reach someone than actual safety. But I don't really disagree with your broader point. This system doesn't seem very practical for a whole range of issues. Plenty of other live events have policies against recording and cell phone use and don't seem to have any serious problems enforcing those policies (or, indeed, need to do much "enforcement" at all). Perhaps rock concerts are different because of the type of crowd.

cglace 9y ago

What type of information would you receive on your phone during a concert that would make you safer? I'm honestly curious.

throwaway43532 9y ago
"Hey throwaway43532, [PERSON] just found out you're at [PLACE] and is on their way with a weapon. I contacted the authorities, but you need to get out of there now!" might be a severe example. There are many situations where a cell phone can allow you to send or receive information that could tip the scales in your favor.
- paublyrne 9y ago
  The possibility of me ever getting a message remotely like that is so remote that the very idea could power the infinite improbability drive and take me to the restaurant at the end of the universe.
- nicky0 9y ago
  If you live inside a Hollywood action movie, yes.
  - thecatspaw 9y ago
    "hey the dangerous stalker you have had since 5 years found out you are going to this concert." Does it still sound like hollywood?
    - nicky0 9y ago
      Yes it does.
    - gkya 9y ago
      Is the audience one person?
    - culot 9y ago
      Translation: I'm unwilling to put down my phone, and I will conjure any number of nightmare scenarios to justify my addiction. Or, perhaps, some people are truly terrified to be away from their smartphones. That is itself a scary thought. If a person's smartphone is removed from the picture for some reason, how would they be able to function? If the cell network went down, would the crowd descend into mindless chaos? There are no more pay phones, no more cozy landlines, so how would people manage if there were an emergency?

jonnycomputer 9y ago

I was being curmudgeonly. Sure, cell phones can contribute to personal safety; whether it actually does in a standing-room-only rock concert given the distribution of risks one is likely to encounter in that context is another matter. I have a hard time imagining one, except a medical emergency, maybe? Except that having people find security might truly be more expedient. Besides, I cam imagine real harm. Everyone simultaneously receiving a false alarm that a ballistic missile is headed there way might actually cause Widespread Panic to come out and play an encore.

nicky0 9y ago
Having a phone makes people feel safe. Whether it makes them actually safer, I don't think so.
lotharbot 9y ago
> "I have a hard time imagining one" Someone mentioned above that, in the event of a fire alarm and being separated from your group, being able to reconnect with them is important. Particularly for vulnerable people (whether due to age, health reasons, or being someone who might be targeted for violence or harassment), being separated from your group for a long time can be a safety issue.
- DrScump 9y ago
  being able to reconnect with them is important Wouldn't you all be meeting at the place where you reclaim your phones anyway?
  - lotharbot 9y ago
    in the context of having to leave the building due to a fire alarm, no, you're not meeting them back inside the building at the phone re-collection point (or in this case one of the phone unlock mechanisms). At least not immediately. As I mentioned in another comment, it's possible you've never taken someone with a disability or social dysfunction to their first-ever concert, knowing that it's partly enabled by the fact that you can easily reconnect if you get separated (by the crowd, bathroom lines, a fire alarm, etc.) Take away that extra measure of safety and security, and the majority of people can "just deal with it", but people with certain disabilities or vulnerabilities are going to have to opt out. Personally, I'd rather work to be inclusive. Use social norms, not technological lockouts, to get people to put their phones away.

potta_coffee 9y ago

Do you think maybe the security guards and other personnel at the venue might have access to phones? Do you think that you in particular are going to be the last resort that manages to reach 911 when nobody else can? It's a weird train of thought to me. Venues are required to have their ducks in a row - emergency plans in place, etc. You not having your phone during the show is not a safety concern.

gknoy 9y ago
If a fire breaks out and I have to evacuate a venue, there is a _distinct_ difference in the effect on me if I have to have had my phone locked up. In one case, I leave the facility, get to safety, and then _go home_ (eventually), at which point I have my phone. In the other case, I leave the facility, get to safety, but my phone is either destroyed, or in a pile with 900 other concert-goers' phones, and I need to either wait around (in a place where emergency services probably don't want extra people), or _replace my destroyed phone_. No thanks, I'll keep my phone in my pocket or backpack, and have it with me when I leave with no extra effort. If necessary, this will mean skipping any concerts or similar where that's an issue.
- whatyoucantsay 9y ago
  > In the other case, I leave the facility, get to safety, but my phone is either destroyed, or in a pile with 900 other concert-goers' phones, and I need to either wait around (in a place where emergency services probably don't want extra people), or _replace my destroyed phone_. You should check out how Yondr works: https://www.overyondr.com/howitworks/ https://www.overyondr.com/howitworks/ The phone stays with you.
  - user9182031 9y ago
    Wow, this looks super neat. How does it work in practice?
- nicky0 9y ago
  Perhaps you should have read the article. The phone is locked up in a pouch your pocket.