5 ms·

Agreed. This should be a policy and etiquette issue not a forcible restriction of human communication. Imagine your teenage child attends a concert and needs

Agreed. This should be a policy and etiquette issue not a forcible restriction of human communication. Imagine your teenage child attends a concert and needs to call you to escape a dangerous situation. There are so many situations of nuance that a blanket ban disrupts in a negative way. This is a very shallow way to deal with a complicated issue.

collyw 9y ago
"Think of the children"
icebraining 9y ago
needs to call you to escape a dangerous situation Can you describe a scenario for me? Because I'm having a very hard time imagining one where the teenager is immediate peril (otherwise they could just unlock the phone in the next room) yet the best person to help them is not in the building. Maybe it's unfair, but it just sounds like helicopter parenting to me.
- gknoy 9y ago
  Let's imagine that my child is at a party or other social engagement and they want deniable reason to escape. [0] There may be excessive peer pressure, illegal activity, or any other pre-arranged reason they may need to bail on something without incurring the loss of face that could be socially devastating. If I have my phone, they can text me with some pre-arranged message ("x"), and I will feign an emergency and get them out of the situation ASAP (or arrange for a friend to do similarly). Sure, they could just leave (or get a taxi?), but having a GTFO script lets them exit a situation without the social losses of having been perceived as "too scared" to cave to peer pressure. They can say, "My dad just called and said something major just came up, and he's on his way to get me. Yeah, I know, parents, right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" If their phone is locked up (or mine) there's a lot more friction to that interaction. 0: https://bertfulks.com/2017/02/23/x-plan-giving-your-kids-a-way-out-xplan/ https://bertfulks.com/2017/02/23/x-plan-giving-your-kids-a-w...
  - BHSPitMonkey 9y ago
    So, during those times when you're "on call" and need to be responsive to such events, you have to make the decision not to go on camping trips or flights or no-phone events like this one. Right?
    - mschuster91 9y ago
      With kids you are always "on call".
      - BHSPitMonkey 9y ago
        So your position is that with kids at home, you can't be doing things that cause you to be unavailable/unreachable for durations of time longer than some threshold. Nothing wrong with that. The kinds of recreational events that conflict with that restriction are generally easy to spot ahead of time, and no one's compelling you to participate in them.
  - whatyoucantsay 9y ago
    > "Let's imagine that my child is at a party or other social engagement and they want deniable reason to escape. [0] There may be excessive peer pressure, illegal activity, or any other pre-arranged reason they may need to bail on something without incurring the loss of face that could be socially devastating." In that case, I would imagine the child's parents failed in teaching the values of both honesty and courage. Lying is often easier in the short term, but it leads to worse outcomes over time in all but the rarest of situations (e.g. you're hiding Anne Frank and soldiers knock at the door). Having a great excuse is useful today, but having a spine is useful for all one's days.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      "(...) None of us could live with an habitual truth-teller; but thank goodness none of us has to. An habitual truth-teller is simply an impossible creature; he does not exist; he never has existed. Of course there are people who think they never lie, but it is not so—and this ignorance is one of the very things that shame our so-called civilization. Everybody lies—every day; every hour; awake; asleep; in his dreams; in his joy; in his mourning; if he keeps his tongue still, his hands, his feet, his eyes, his attitude, will convey deception—and purposely. (...)" Mark Twain, On the Decay of the Art of Lying (http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2572/pg2572.html http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2572/pg2572.html)
potta_coffee 9y ago
Maybe the market should decide. No one is forcing you to buy a ticket to the show and separate you from your phone.
- sib 9y ago
  If the policy is clearly stated during the purchase process, sure. If it's something that's just announced at the door, after you've bought the (generally non-refundable) tickets, no.
  - potta_coffee 9y ago
    Sure, I agree with that. I want this policy made known to me before I decide whether to attend or not.
tzahola 9y ago
Nobody forces you or “your teenage child” to attend such a concert.

collyw 9y ago

"Think of the children"

icebraining 9y ago

needs to call you to escape a dangerous situation Can you describe a scenario for me? Because I'm having a very hard time imagining one where the teenager is immediate peril (otherwise they could just unlock the phone in the next room) yet the best person to help them is not in the building. Maybe it's unfair, but it just sounds like helicopter parenting to me.

gknoy 9y ago
Let's imagine that my child is at a party or other social engagement and they want deniable reason to escape. [0] There may be excessive peer pressure, illegal activity, or any other pre-arranged reason they may need to bail on something without incurring the loss of face that could be socially devastating. If I have my phone, they can text me with some pre-arranged message ("x"), and I will feign an emergency and get them out of the situation ASAP (or arrange for a friend to do similarly). Sure, they could just leave (or get a taxi?), but having a GTFO script lets them exit a situation without the social losses of having been perceived as "too scared" to cave to peer pressure. They can say, "My dad just called and said something major just came up, and he's on his way to get me. Yeah, I know, parents, right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" If their phone is locked up (or mine) there's a lot more friction to that interaction. 0: https://bertfulks.com/2017/02/23/x-plan-giving-your-kids-a-way-out-xplan/ https://bertfulks.com/2017/02/23/x-plan-giving-your-kids-a-w...
- BHSPitMonkey 9y ago
  So, during those times when you're "on call" and need to be responsive to such events, you have to make the decision not to go on camping trips or flights or no-phone events like this one. Right?
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    With kids you are always "on call".
    - BHSPitMonkey 9y ago
      So your position is that with kids at home, you can't be doing things that cause you to be unavailable/unreachable for durations of time longer than some threshold. Nothing wrong with that. The kinds of recreational events that conflict with that restriction are generally easy to spot ahead of time, and no one's compelling you to participate in them.
- whatyoucantsay 9y ago
  > "Let's imagine that my child is at a party or other social engagement and they want deniable reason to escape. [0] There may be excessive peer pressure, illegal activity, or any other pre-arranged reason they may need to bail on something without incurring the loss of face that could be socially devastating." In that case, I would imagine the child's parents failed in teaching the values of both honesty and courage. Lying is often easier in the short term, but it leads to worse outcomes over time in all but the rarest of situations (e.g. you're hiding Anne Frank and soldiers knock at the door). Having a great excuse is useful today, but having a spine is useful for all one's days.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    "(...) None of us could live with an habitual truth-teller; but thank goodness none of us has to. An habitual truth-teller is simply an impossible creature; he does not exist; he never has existed. Of course there are people who think they never lie, but it is not so—and this ignorance is one of the very things that shame our so-called civilization. Everybody lies—every day; every hour; awake; asleep; in his dreams; in his joy; in his mourning; if he keeps his tongue still, his hands, his feet, his eyes, his attitude, will convey deception—and purposely. (...)" Mark Twain, On the Decay of the Art of Lying (http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2572/pg2572.html http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2572/pg2572.html)

potta_coffee 9y ago

Maybe the market should decide. No one is forcing you to buy a ticket to the show and separate you from your phone.

sib 9y ago
If the policy is clearly stated during the purchase process, sure. If it's something that's just announced at the door, after you've bought the (generally non-refundable) tickets, no.
- potta_coffee 9y ago
  Sure, I agree with that. I want this policy made known to me before I decide whether to attend or not.

tzahola 9y ago

Nobody forces you or “your teenage child” to attend such a concert.