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I've read that again and again, but my personal experience is just the opposite. I haven't felt "positive reinforcement" or "dopamine hits" for quite some time

I've read that again and again, but my personal experience is just the opposite. I haven't felt "positive reinforcement" or "dopamine hits" for quite some time on Facebook. Since it shifted from social network to social media, it doesn't "give" me anything anymore. It is tedious, and I don't check it because I feel compelled, or even enjoy it, but I have to make a concious effort to login and check every now and then, like you check mail or your bank website. Back when it was more about the profile, about "stalking" friends and connecting with real-life acquaintances, it was much more addictive. Features like "you know this person via these two steps", poking, but also subtle clues like the timing of when somebody visited your page, or that they commented on an old photo (meaning they browsed your gallery)... that is all missing now. Facebook was so addictive because it enabled you to obsess about social connections. Friends, crushes, people with common hobbies, and so on.

Infernal 9y ago
I hadn't fully realized this, but I think you nailed it. I stopped using Facebook regularly well over 5 years ago, and the only reason I have an account is because many people in my neighborhood are on a Facebook Messenger thread together (kind of an informal thing). When I did use Facebook daily, it was for all the reasons you mention. If I ever log onto the site now I'm immediately driven away, it's just a bunch of advertising and nothing I care to see.
gerbilly 9y ago
> I haven't felt "positive reinforcement" or "dopamine hits" for quite some time on Facebook. A 'feed' does not have to be overtly social to have addictive potential. Suppose you visit a news site, not a social one, no likes, hearts or any feedback from other users. The stories appear in a feed that you can refresh. 80% of the stories are of no interest to you, but 20% are great. You can't predict when an interesting story will appear. This configuration is enough to create "positive reinforcement" and the unpredictability can foster addictive behaviour. When you encounter an article you like, it's a bit like sifting through sand and finding a gold nugget, you get a dopamine hit for that. The fact that the nuggets only come up randomly and are hard to predict is called an "intermittent reinforcement schedule" and is known to elicit a high rate of response from the subject.
- baq 9y ago
  Perfect explanation for my first Usenet experiences, then slashdot, the Reddit and HN.
  - flycaliguy 9y ago
    Wasn’t there another one in there called “ko”-something or other during the slashdot days? It’s funny how in all my years of internet, I’ve probably been reading comments by people I first read when I was much younger.
    - gerbilly 9y ago
      >Wasn’t there another one in there called “ko”-something or other during the slashdot days? Maybe you mean kuro5hin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuro5hin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuro5hin
- sova 9y ago
  Related: Chimpanzees have higher dopamine release when the peanut dispenser only gives out peanuts "sometimes" instead of "every time" and can also explain (behaviorally) why some human become very addicted to the unpredictable nature of slots.
  - Chaebixi 9y ago
    The term for that is variable-ratio positive reinforcement [2] which leads to habits that are resistant to "extinction" [3]. I just learned this the other day. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber#C.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber#C.... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement#Simple_schedules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement#Simple_schedules [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_(psychology)
    - sova 9y ago
      Nice. I will be sure to only upvote you sometimes so you stay on HN a long while.
nojvek 9y ago
My only use of Facebook is one of my friends occasionally messages me or I need to ask my network something occasionally. Facebook news feed for me is utter garbage!

Infernal 9y ago

I hadn't fully realized this, but I think you nailed it. I stopped using Facebook regularly well over 5 years ago, and the only reason I have an account is because many people in my neighborhood are on a Facebook Messenger thread together (kind of an informal thing). When I did use Facebook daily, it was for all the reasons you mention. If I ever log onto the site now I'm immediately driven away, it's just a bunch of advertising and nothing I care to see.

gerbilly 9y ago

> I haven't felt "positive reinforcement" or "dopamine hits" for quite some time on Facebook. A 'feed' does not have to be overtly social to have addictive potential. Suppose you visit a news site, not a social one, no likes, hearts or any feedback from other users. The stories appear in a feed that you can refresh. 80% of the stories are of no interest to you, but 20% are great. You can't predict when an interesting story will appear. This configuration is enough to create "positive reinforcement" and the unpredictability can foster addictive behaviour. When you encounter an article you like, it's a bit like sifting through sand and finding a gold nugget, you get a dopamine hit for that. The fact that the nuggets only come up randomly and are hard to predict is called an "intermittent reinforcement schedule" and is known to elicit a high rate of response from the subject.

baq 9y ago
Perfect explanation for my first Usenet experiences, then slashdot, the Reddit and HN.
- flycaliguy 9y ago
  Wasn’t there another one in there called “ko”-something or other during the slashdot days? It’s funny how in all my years of internet, I’ve probably been reading comments by people I first read when I was much younger.
  - gerbilly 9y ago
    >Wasn’t there another one in there called “ko”-something or other during the slashdot days? Maybe you mean kuro5hin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuro5hin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuro5hin
sova 9y ago
Related: Chimpanzees have higher dopamine release when the peanut dispenser only gives out peanuts "sometimes" instead of "every time" and can also explain (behaviorally) why some human become very addicted to the unpredictable nature of slots.
- Chaebixi 9y ago
  The term for that is variable-ratio positive reinforcement [2] which leads to habits that are resistant to "extinction" [3]. I just learned this the other day. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber#C.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber#C.... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement#Simple_schedules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement#Simple_schedules [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_(psychology)
  - sova 9y ago
    Nice. I will be sure to only upvote you sometimes so you stay on HN a long while.

nojvek 9y ago

My only use of Facebook is one of my friends occasionally messages me or I need to ask my network something occasionally. Facebook news feed for me is utter garbage!