4 ms·

The "fact" that everyone starts with nothing is obviously false. Even ignoring opportunity, the fetal health is highly dependent on the environment.

by tabeth 9y ago

randomdata 9y ago
Given that we're talking about wealth – something that you measure on a balance sheet – is fetal health something that should be included? My experience with accounting says no, but I'm not a professional accountant. Perhaps you have misunderstood this discussion?
- tabeth 9y ago
  If you don't think the health of the fetus, and subsequently the child and adult has anything to do with poverty then I dunno what I tell ya.
  - randomdata 9y ago
    While I understand how the health of the fetus relates to poverty, I fail to see how that has anything to do with this particular discussion? We are talking about how everyone starts with nothing. The balance sheet of all brand new people to world always starts empty.
    - tabeth 9y ago
      You're missing the point. Saying everyone starts off with a blank slate is like saying everyone born starts off alive. It's a useless statement. The point is that the quality of life upon birth is different. Said qualities result in the discrepancies you see today. EDIT: Furthermore, originally you stated: > The fact remains that everyone starts with nothing It's already been illustrated this is false. If you believe quality of life at birth is different, then by definition, everyone does not start off with nothing, or zero. People start off with the qualities possessed at birth.
      - randomdata 9y ago
        > You're missing the point. Technically, I made the point. I'm not sure how I can miss my own point? Granted, I may have poorly phrased it leading to others missing the point, which is my bad, but if you're not going to try and let me clarify, I'm not sure what we're doing here? > The point is that the quality of life upon birth is different. Sure. I cannot disagree with that, but it's miles away from this conversation. > It's already been illustrated this is false. I'm afraid I still don't see it. That point was made in reference to earlier discussion specifically about wealth (again, something you measure on a balance sheet, not factors like fetal health). Their parents might have wealth that can be transferred to the child, but that is not the same as starting with wealth.
moduspol 9y ago
I think the point is being missed here. In an inherent sense, humans start with nothing. We (as a society) have hospitals available which greatly decrease infant mortality. We have widely available nutrition that keeps people from starving. These are steps that we, as a society, have taken to improve upon the default state (having nothing) of humans--including fetal health. Perhaps rather than focusing on how to make people in poverty more comfortable, we should focus on how to get them out of poverty. That's not the same as claiming all people start on a level playing field.
- tabeth 9y ago
  In no sense do people start off with nothing. People start off with the abilities or lack thereof possessed at birth. Compare a child with fetal alcohol syndrome with one without it. Do both start off with nothing? No. Clearly one has something the other does not. Why do people insist on believing nonsense?
  - randomdata 9y ago
    This discussion is specially about wealth. Fetal alcohol syndrome is not usually added as a liability on a balance sheet, even if it is liability to everyday living. Everyone starts with a balance of $0. > Why do people insist on believing nonsense? Why are people trying to twist this discussion into things it never was?
    - tabeth 9y ago
      Nothing is being twisted. If what you mean is that two babies have the same amount of money in their bank accounts, then that's what you should say. Of course, if one said that they would be ignored as that much is obvious. What you should not say is that "they both start off with nothing". Wealth is more than money. In fact, wealth literally just means an abundance of possessions; prosperity. What dictionary are you using that says wealth is only measured by dollars in a bank account? By the way, the article specifically mentions health, so...
      - 9y ago

The "fact" that everyone starts with nothing is obviously false. Even ignoring opportunity, the fetal health is highly dependent on the environment.

by tabeth 9y ago

The "fact" that everyone starts with nothing is obviously false. Even ignoring opportunity, the fetal health is highly dependent on the environment.

randomdata 9y ago

Given that we're talking about wealth – something that you measure on a balance sheet – is fetal health something that should be included? My experience with accounting says no, but I'm not a professional accountant. Perhaps you have misunderstood this discussion?

tabeth 9y ago
If you don't think the health of the fetus, and subsequently the child and adult has anything to do with poverty then I dunno what I tell ya.
- randomdata 9y ago
  While I understand how the health of the fetus relates to poverty, I fail to see how that has anything to do with this particular discussion? We are talking about how everyone starts with nothing. The balance sheet of all brand new people to world always starts empty.
  - tabeth 9y ago
    You're missing the point. Saying everyone starts off with a blank slate is like saying everyone born starts off alive. It's a useless statement. The point is that the quality of life upon birth is different. Said qualities result in the discrepancies you see today. EDIT: Furthermore, originally you stated: > The fact remains that everyone starts with nothing It's already been illustrated this is false. If you believe quality of life at birth is different, then by definition, everyone does not start off with nothing, or zero. People start off with the qualities possessed at birth.
    - randomdata 9y ago
      > You're missing the point. Technically, I made the point. I'm not sure how I can miss my own point? Granted, I may have poorly phrased it leading to others missing the point, which is my bad, but if you're not going to try and let me clarify, I'm not sure what we're doing here? > The point is that the quality of life upon birth is different. Sure. I cannot disagree with that, but it's miles away from this conversation. > It's already been illustrated this is false. I'm afraid I still don't see it. That point was made in reference to earlier discussion specifically about wealth (again, something you measure on a balance sheet, not factors like fetal health). Their parents might have wealth that can be transferred to the child, but that is not the same as starting with wealth.

moduspol 9y ago

I think the point is being missed here. In an inherent sense, humans start with nothing. We (as a society) have hospitals available which greatly decrease infant mortality. We have widely available nutrition that keeps people from starving. These are steps that we, as a society, have taken to improve upon the default state (having nothing) of humans--including fetal health. Perhaps rather than focusing on how to make people in poverty more comfortable, we should focus on how to get them out of poverty. That's not the same as claiming all people start on a level playing field.

tabeth 9y ago
In no sense do people start off with nothing. People start off with the abilities or lack thereof possessed at birth. Compare a child with fetal alcohol syndrome with one without it. Do both start off with nothing? No. Clearly one has something the other does not. Why do people insist on believing nonsense?
- randomdata 9y ago
  This discussion is specially about wealth. Fetal alcohol syndrome is not usually added as a liability on a balance sheet, even if it is liability to everyday living. Everyone starts with a balance of $0. > Why do people insist on believing nonsense? Why are people trying to twist this discussion into things it never was?
  - tabeth 9y ago
    Nothing is being twisted. If what you mean is that two babies have the same amount of money in their bank accounts, then that's what you should say. Of course, if one said that they would be ignored as that much is obvious. What you should not say is that "they both start off with nothing". Wealth is more than money. In fact, wealth literally just means an abundance of possessions; prosperity. What dictionary are you using that says wealth is only measured by dollars in a bank account? By the way, the article specifically mentions health, so...
    - 9y ago