7 ms·

This video from Anaheim (California) is reminiscent of travelling around Dehli (from 39' in - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF7hWzqdPDk https://www.youtube.co

This video from Anaheim (California) is reminiscent of travelling around Dehli (from 39' in - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF7hWzqdPDk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF7hWzqdPDk). The level/amount of poverty in this video is shocking.

odonnellryan 9y ago
Probably worse in CA, but this exists on some level in every state. Here in NJ we have the same exact thing, just not along a bike path.
- wahsd 9y ago
  Funny enough, it only exists in places that are led by Democrats and liberals or are affected by Democrat and Liberal policies. But please prove me wrong. I just need one indisputable example and I will eat crow regardless of whether one exception doesn't make the rule.
- mrarjen 9y ago
  Yea, I read that most homeless seem to head to CA because it's where the money is... Here in NL we have some homeless, but also lots of government systems in place to offer housing and incentives to possibly work or get schooling. In the end this is actually cheaper, as to prevent crime and what not. Not sure how this would work in the US.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    About 60 million Americans receive some federal assistance. A slightly larger number get healthcare from Medicaid. The assistance is not a large amount per month, but it is there.
    - ckinnan 9y ago
      Medicaid covers around 80 million people, at roughly $7,000 a year per recipient, which is double what the UK spends per patient. https://www.kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/distribution-of-medicaid-enrollees-by-enrollment-group/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D https://www.kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/distribution-of...
      - maxerickson 9y ago
        The breakdown of the per recipient spending is useful: https://www.kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/medicaid-spending-per-enrollee/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D https://www.kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/medicaid-spendi... Much of the spending is on the elderly and disabled (which both group tend to have above average medical needs).
  - SolaceQuantum 9y ago
    Utah simply housed their homeless and it was cheaper because homeless people were no longer using emergency services for basic healthcare among other things[1]/ 1. https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chronic-homelessness-by-91-percent-heres-how https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chroni...
    - mrarjen 9y ago
      It's only a fraction of the people that are homeless in CA, but a great result none the less. Here is an article of just LA. Seems quite out of control compared with Utah. :( 1. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-homeless-count-20170530-story.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-homeless-count-2...
- dictum 9y ago
  To wahsd (dead comment): I get your point, but you should ask if the people are poor because they vote Democrat, or they vote Democrat because they're poor (and see themselves better represented by the Democrat platform)? Maybe not even/just poor, but excluded from local economy/politics due to race, gender, ethnicity, not being a member of the old boys' club, etc.
  - e40 9y ago
    We've all seen the articles about Republican controlled cities putting homeless people on buses for Berkeley and other destinations in CA. wahsd is clueless.
    - simonsarris 9y ago
      This raises an interesting question: Do US democrats think inter-state immigration is bad? For example some liberal friends when talking about immigration last year kept posting that poem on the statue of liberty: > "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free", etc. The Republican controlled cities are giving huddled masses to the people who accept that immigration logic.
      - e40 9y ago
        > Do US democrats think inter-state immigration is bad? Not at all. The US has a big problem with homelessness, and for a long time we've been sticking our head in the sand. Cities like SF have been trying to do something about it for a while, but I don't believe any city can solve the problem. This issue is greater than one city or one state. It's a national problem that requires national solutions.
        InitialLastName 9y ago
        Agreed. It's made worse by the fact that homeless people are often transient. When a city does a good job of providing services to homeless people, homeless people travel there. Rinse, repeat until the services are overwhelmed, and everyone goes back to "why are we failing to deal with our homelessness problem?" It worked for SLC because SLC is isolated and expensive to travel to. In the tightly packed, interconnected megalopolises of the Bay Area, LA, and the Northeast, good luck getting anything to work long-term at just the municipal level.
- bpicolo 9y ago
  Berkeley has a tent community dead in the middle of downtown on some government property. Berkeley's homeless problem is really front-and-center. The otherwise nice parks in the area are pretty unusable.
  - jachee 9y ago
    I'd argue that if they're serving the poor, they're not unusable, they're being used to the greater good.
  - notyourday 9y ago
    I'm sorry, I have zero sympathy to people from Berkeley complaining. Considering the amount of money that Berkeley citizens collectively have and the progressive positions that they hold I am baffled why they do not add an addition $X thousand per year tax to everyone who makes more than a federal poverty level there to make sure that all out of luck homeless people have a real roof over their head, warm meals and medical care. Unless of course the so called progressive population does not actually care that the middle of downtown Berkeley looks like a third world country.
    - bpicolo 9y ago
      It's a mix yeah? Berkeley as a whole has a poverty rate 6% higher than the national average. .6% higher than Oakland.
      - notyourday 9y ago
        2015 fiscal berkeley operating budget was 293 million. https://www.cityofberkeley.info/Clerk/City_Council/2015/05_May/Documents/2015-05-12_WS_Item_01_Proposed_FY_2016.aspx https://www.cityofberkeley.info/Clerk/City_Council/2015/05_M... 2017 homeless number is about 1000: http://www.dailycal.org/2017/05/29/berkeleys-homeless-population-nears-1000-homeless-shelter-crisis/ http://www.dailycal.org/2017/05/29/berkeleys-homeless-popula... If every one of them is provided a $3k/mo apartment, it would increase the budget by 36 million. Berkeley population is estimated at 121k http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/berkeley-ca-population/ http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/berkeley-ca-popul... 20% of berkeley population lives below powerty level. So lets say it is 100k that are left. 36M/100k is what? $360 per person? There, I just solved Berkeley homeless problem at a price of less than 5 bottles of Napa Valley Cab per person who screamed at the sky in the city of Berkeley the day Trump became President Elect.
yters 9y ago
It certainly looks bad to our eyes. But, beggars in Dehli would probably love to live in that sort of tent city, and have access to all the benefits available to the poor in the US.
- sidlls 9y ago
  This sort of comparison is terrible because it trivializes the miserable existence of our impoverished and implies they should be thankful they aren't "beggars in Dehli."
  - RandomTisk 9y ago
    It doesn't imply anything, it flat out says it, being poor in America is vastly more comfortable and healthy than Dehli. Notice he didn't say "So don't worry about our poor at all.", just put it into perspective. The facts are, if you want to help the most unfortunate human beings, they're more likely to be in Dehli.
    - sidlls 9y ago
      The comparison serves no purpose other than to suggest that the impoverished American should be grateful he's not a "beggar in Dehli." It's not some clinical fact devoid of context.
      - threatofrain 9y ago
        No, it also discusses how a moral calculus might not prioritize locality, but instead impact or efficacy on lives. While I don't think it's an adequate idea, as it undersells the value of clannism, it's pretty easy to think of other interesting purposes for this comparison other than moral shaming. Perhaps this might've been a starting point for discussing the harms to the moral thinking which doesn't erect and police boundaries to "we". A lot of moral discussion, in real life, on Reddit, or on HN, more or less of the same quality (as opposed to other discussions on HN) go nowhere. There is utility to discussing an objective moral calculus that multitudes can observe and negotiate.
lisper 9y ago
Ten years ago I made a feature-length documentary about the homeless in Santa Monica: http://graceofgodmovie.com http://graceofgodmovie.com Santa Monica seems to have successfully exported their problem to neighboring cities since then. In general, things seem to be substantially worse now.
sabujp 9y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wctpI_QnHqo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wctpI_QnHqo
falafel 9y ago
Also what's shocking is that you see plenty of young able people in those tents that could get a job yet decide to stay there. That baffles me. If you have arms, and legs, and you're doing ok in the membrane, then you can find a job in this country.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

odonnellryan 9y ago

Probably worse in CA, but this exists on some level in every state. Here in NJ we have the same exact thing, just not along a bike path.

wahsd 9y ago
Funny enough, it only exists in places that are led by Democrats and liberals or are affected by Democrat and Liberal policies. But please prove me wrong. I just need one indisputable example and I will eat crow regardless of whether one exception doesn't make the rule.
mrarjen 9y ago
Yea, I read that most homeless seem to head to CA because it's where the money is... Here in NL we have some homeless, but also lots of government systems in place to offer housing and incentives to possibly work or get schooling. In the end this is actually cheaper, as to prevent crime and what not. Not sure how this would work in the US.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  About 60 million Americans receive some federal assistance. A slightly larger number get healthcare from Medicaid. The assistance is not a large amount per month, but it is there.
  - ckinnan 9y ago
    Medicaid covers around 80 million people, at roughly $7,000 a year per recipient, which is double what the UK spends per patient. https://www.kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/distribution-of-medicaid-enrollees-by-enrollment-group/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D https://www.kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/distribution-of...
    - maxerickson 9y ago
      The breakdown of the per recipient spending is useful: https://www.kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/medicaid-spending-per-enrollee/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D https://www.kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/medicaid-spendi... Much of the spending is on the elderly and disabled (which both group tend to have above average medical needs).
- SolaceQuantum 9y ago
  Utah simply housed their homeless and it was cheaper because homeless people were no longer using emergency services for basic healthcare among other things[1]/ 1. https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chronic-homelessness-by-91-percent-heres-how https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chroni...
  - mrarjen 9y ago
    It's only a fraction of the people that are homeless in CA, but a great result none the less. Here is an article of just LA. Seems quite out of control compared with Utah. :( 1. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-homeless-count-20170530-story.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-homeless-count-2...
dictum 9y ago
To wahsd (dead comment): I get your point, but you should ask if the people are poor because they vote Democrat, or they vote Democrat because they're poor (and see themselves better represented by the Democrat platform)? Maybe not even/just poor, but excluded from local economy/politics due to race, gender, ethnicity, not being a member of the old boys' club, etc.
- e40 9y ago
  We've all seen the articles about Republican controlled cities putting homeless people on buses for Berkeley and other destinations in CA. wahsd is clueless.
  - simonsarris 9y ago
    This raises an interesting question: Do US democrats think inter-state immigration is bad? For example some liberal friends when talking about immigration last year kept posting that poem on the statue of liberty: > "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free", etc. The Republican controlled cities are giving huddled masses to the people who accept that immigration logic.
    - e40 9y ago
      > Do US democrats think inter-state immigration is bad? Not at all. The US has a big problem with homelessness, and for a long time we've been sticking our head in the sand. Cities like SF have been trying to do something about it for a while, but I don't believe any city can solve the problem. This issue is greater than one city or one state. It's a national problem that requires national solutions.
      - InitialLastName 9y ago
        Agreed. It's made worse by the fact that homeless people are often transient. When a city does a good job of providing services to homeless people, homeless people travel there. Rinse, repeat until the services are overwhelmed, and everyone goes back to "why are we failing to deal with our homelessness problem?" It worked for SLC because SLC is isolated and expensive to travel to. In the tightly packed, interconnected megalopolises of the Bay Area, LA, and the Northeast, good luck getting anything to work long-term at just the municipal level.
bpicolo 9y ago
Berkeley has a tent community dead in the middle of downtown on some government property. Berkeley's homeless problem is really front-and-center. The otherwise nice parks in the area are pretty unusable.
- jachee 9y ago
  I'd argue that if they're serving the poor, they're not unusable, they're being used to the greater good.
- notyourday 9y ago
  I'm sorry, I have zero sympathy to people from Berkeley complaining. Considering the amount of money that Berkeley citizens collectively have and the progressive positions that they hold I am baffled why they do not add an addition $X thousand per year tax to everyone who makes more than a federal poverty level there to make sure that all out of luck homeless people have a real roof over their head, warm meals and medical care. Unless of course the so called progressive population does not actually care that the middle of downtown Berkeley looks like a third world country.
  - bpicolo 9y ago
    It's a mix yeah? Berkeley as a whole has a poverty rate 6% higher than the national average. .6% higher than Oakland.
    - notyourday 9y ago
      2015 fiscal berkeley operating budget was 293 million. https://www.cityofberkeley.info/Clerk/City_Council/2015/05_May/Documents/2015-05-12_WS_Item_01_Proposed_FY_2016.aspx https://www.cityofberkeley.info/Clerk/City_Council/2015/05_M... 2017 homeless number is about 1000: http://www.dailycal.org/2017/05/29/berkeleys-homeless-population-nears-1000-homeless-shelter-crisis/ http://www.dailycal.org/2017/05/29/berkeleys-homeless-popula... If every one of them is provided a $3k/mo apartment, it would increase the budget by 36 million. Berkeley population is estimated at 121k http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/berkeley-ca-population/ http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/berkeley-ca-popul... 20% of berkeley population lives below powerty level. So lets say it is 100k that are left. 36M/100k is what? $360 per person? There, I just solved Berkeley homeless problem at a price of less than 5 bottles of Napa Valley Cab per person who screamed at the sky in the city of Berkeley the day Trump became President Elect.

yters 9y ago

It certainly looks bad to our eyes. But, beggars in Dehli would probably love to live in that sort of tent city, and have access to all the benefits available to the poor in the US.

sidlls 9y ago
This sort of comparison is terrible because it trivializes the miserable existence of our impoverished and implies they should be thankful they aren't "beggars in Dehli."
- RandomTisk 9y ago
  It doesn't imply anything, it flat out says it, being poor in America is vastly more comfortable and healthy than Dehli. Notice he didn't say "So don't worry about our poor at all.", just put it into perspective. The facts are, if you want to help the most unfortunate human beings, they're more likely to be in Dehli.
  - sidlls 9y ago
    The comparison serves no purpose other than to suggest that the impoverished American should be grateful he's not a "beggar in Dehli." It's not some clinical fact devoid of context.
    - threatofrain 9y ago
      No, it also discusses how a moral calculus might not prioritize locality, but instead impact or efficacy on lives. While I don't think it's an adequate idea, as it undersells the value of clannism, it's pretty easy to think of other interesting purposes for this comparison other than moral shaming. Perhaps this might've been a starting point for discussing the harms to the moral thinking which doesn't erect and police boundaries to "we". A lot of moral discussion, in real life, on Reddit, or on HN, more or less of the same quality (as opposed to other discussions on HN) go nowhere. There is utility to discussing an objective moral calculus that multitudes can observe and negotiate.

lisper 9y ago

Ten years ago I made a feature-length documentary about the homeless in Santa Monica: http://graceofgodmovie.com http://graceofgodmovie.com Santa Monica seems to have successfully exported their problem to neighboring cities since then. In general, things seem to be substantially worse now.

sabujp 9y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wctpI_QnHqo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wctpI_QnHqo

falafel 9y ago

Also what's shocking is that you see plenty of young able people in those tents that could get a job yet decide to stay there. That baffles me. If you have arms, and legs, and you're doing ok in the membrane, then you can find a job in this country.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]