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Please read my comment carefully. I said the US government started a war that killed a million Iraqis. The sectarian violence of which you speak was not a signi

by tkahn6 16y ago

Please read my comment carefully. I said the US government started a war that killed a million Iraqis. The sectarian violence of which you speak was not a significant issue before the war. Your use of the word 'exterminated' makes it sound like you're arguing that the US is directly responsible for Muslims killing Muslims. Sorry if I misunderstood you. You never answered my question though: how many of your friends and family would I have to kill before you turned to violent revenge? This is quite obviously a rhetorical question. However, the answer is "not many", but randomly murdering people wouldn't be my response. I also would like to see a source that says Israel intentionally attacked Lebanese civilians.

MichaelSalib 16y ago
Your use of the word 'exterminated' makes it sound like you're arguing that the US is directly responsible for Muslims killing Muslims. In general, wars tend to cause lots and lots of people to die. That means that countries that starts wars for no good reason are responsible for the resulting deaths. randomly murdering people wouldn't be my response I'm glad to hear that your violent revenge would stop just short of murder. Brave talk from a man who hasn't lost much. I also would like to see a source that says Israel intentionally attacked Lebanese civilians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shelling_of_Qana#Mohamed_Atta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shelling_of_Qana#Mohamed_A... says "A United Nations military investigation later determined it was unlikely that Israeli shelling of the U.N. compound was the result of technical or procedural errors."
- tkahn6 16y ago
  I'm glad to hear that your violent revenge would stop just short of murder. Brave talk from a man who hasn't lost much I never said I wouldn't kill you if you killed my friends and family. Murdering random people in response to your actions is not only morally wrong, but also stupid and throughly irrational. You are apologizing for people who do this because you claim it's "a natural human response". Killing random people is not a natural human response; in my opinion, it's the response of a psychopath.
  - MichaelSalib 16y ago
    it's the response of a psychopath Perhaps. But I don't think you are very familiar with history. I've read many accounts of soldiers, including American soldiers, killing random people because their friends were killed. In general, such people do not face discipline. In fact, there are many Americans who urged the killing of completely arbitrary Arabs or Muslims in revenge -- many of these people are politicians. My point is: this sort of psychopathy is quite common and very well accepted in society provided it is directed against out-groups.
    - tkahn6 16y ago
      Perhaps. But I don't think you are very familiar with history. I've read many accounts of soldiers, including American soldiers, killing random people because their friends were killed. In general, such people do not face discipline. In fact, there are many Americans who urged the killing of completely arbitrary Arabs or Muslims in revenge -- many of these people are politicians. Soldiers are court-martialed and arrested for killing civilians. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/jul/13/no-prisoners-america-at-war/ http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/jul/13/no-prisoner... (scroll to bottom) http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/nov/16/usa.iraq1 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/nov/16/usa.iraq1 http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-07-09-us-cases_x.htm http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-07-09-us-cases_... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,222220,00.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,222220,00.html Just because not all are found out and tried does not mean it is condoned by the military or US society. You clearly have your own dogmatic view regarding US foreign policy and attitudes towards Muslims and I can't really argue with someone who has an almost religious belief in a point of view.
      - MichaelSalib 16y ago
        Soldiers are court-martialed and arrested for killing civilians. Sometimes they are. Oftentimes they are not. The fact that some are does not prove that regulations prohibiting the killing civilians are uniformly or frequently enforced. Anecdote is not the plural of data. Surely you see that? Just because not all are found out and tried does not mean it is condoned by the military or US society. I'd say that when high ranking political figures publicly advocate the killing of innocent people in revenge for the crimes of others without any sanction at all, then...yes, that does imply that American society condones their behavior. You clearly have your own dogmatic view regarding US foreign policy and attitudes towards Muslims and I can't really argue with someone who has an almost religious belief in a point of view. For someone with "almost religious beliefs", I seem to do a very good job justifying my arguments with evidence. Perhaps that is the main difficulty you face in discussions here. Speaking as someone who almost joined the military and who who has read and studied a great deal in order to understand how military organizations function in practice, I don't think you're knowledgeable enough on the subject to effectively participate in discussion here.

by tkahn6 16y ago

MichaelSalib 16y ago

Your use of the word 'exterminated' makes it sound like you're arguing that the US is directly responsible for Muslims killing Muslims. In general, wars tend to cause lots and lots of people to die. That means that countries that starts wars for no good reason are responsible for the resulting deaths. randomly murdering people wouldn't be my response I'm glad to hear that your violent revenge would stop just short of murder. Brave talk from a man who hasn't lost much. I also would like to see a source that says Israel intentionally attacked Lebanese civilians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shelling_of_Qana#Mohamed_Atta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shelling_of_Qana#Mohamed_A... says "A United Nations military investigation later determined it was unlikely that Israeli shelling of the U.N. compound was the result of technical or procedural errors."

tkahn6 16y ago
I'm glad to hear that your violent revenge would stop just short of murder. Brave talk from a man who hasn't lost much I never said I wouldn't kill you if you killed my friends and family. Murdering random people in response to your actions is not only morally wrong, but also stupid and throughly irrational. You are apologizing for people who do this because you claim it's "a natural human response". Killing random people is not a natural human response; in my opinion, it's the response of a psychopath.
- MichaelSalib 16y ago
  it's the response of a psychopath Perhaps. But I don't think you are very familiar with history. I've read many accounts of soldiers, including American soldiers, killing random people because their friends were killed. In general, such people do not face discipline. In fact, there are many Americans who urged the killing of completely arbitrary Arabs or Muslims in revenge -- many of these people are politicians. My point is: this sort of psychopathy is quite common and very well accepted in society provided it is directed against out-groups.
  - tkahn6 16y ago
    Perhaps. But I don't think you are very familiar with history. I've read many accounts of soldiers, including American soldiers, killing random people because their friends were killed. In general, such people do not face discipline. In fact, there are many Americans who urged the killing of completely arbitrary Arabs or Muslims in revenge -- many of these people are politicians. Soldiers are court-martialed and arrested for killing civilians. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/jul/13/no-prisoners-america-at-war/ http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/jul/13/no-prisoner... (scroll to bottom) http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/nov/16/usa.iraq1 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/nov/16/usa.iraq1 http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-07-09-us-cases_x.htm http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-07-09-us-cases_... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,222220,00.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,222220,00.html Just because not all are found out and tried does not mean it is condoned by the military or US society. You clearly have your own dogmatic view regarding US foreign policy and attitudes towards Muslims and I can't really argue with someone who has an almost religious belief in a point of view.
    - MichaelSalib 16y ago
      Soldiers are court-martialed and arrested for killing civilians. Sometimes they are. Oftentimes they are not. The fact that some are does not prove that regulations prohibiting the killing civilians are uniformly or frequently enforced. Anecdote is not the plural of data. Surely you see that? Just because not all are found out and tried does not mean it is condoned by the military or US society. I'd say that when high ranking political figures publicly advocate the killing of innocent people in revenge for the crimes of others without any sanction at all, then...yes, that does imply that American society condones their behavior. You clearly have your own dogmatic view regarding US foreign policy and attitudes towards Muslims and I can't really argue with someone who has an almost religious belief in a point of view. For someone with "almost religious beliefs", I seem to do a very good job justifying my arguments with evidence. Perhaps that is the main difficulty you face in discussions here. Speaking as someone who almost joined the military and who who has read and studied a great deal in order to understand how military organizations function in practice, I don't think you're knowledgeable enough on the subject to effectively participate in discussion here.