5 ms·

When Keyboard Cat became a thing, I tried making some t-shirts on Teespring or something of the sort. Got a cease-and-desist very quickly. That's when I learne

by lxe 9y ago

When Keyboard Cat became a thing, I tried making some t-shirts on Teespring or something of the sort. Got a cease-and-desist very quickly. That's when I learned that behind the facade of cute internet cats and memes hides the cold reality of copyright law.

peterburkimsher 9y ago
The cold reality of copyright law is having a chilling effect, causing me to not share content for fear of being sued. Case in point: bilingual songs. all of the italic items are illegal I go to a prayer room in Taiwan, and the musicians there have translated many famous Christian songs into Chinese. I got their lyrics as PDFs and converted those to TXT so I can use it with my http://pingtype.github.io http://pingtype.github.io translator app. They stream their 2-hour sets on YouTube and Facebook. I downloaded those and cut out the MP3s. I want to combine the audio with the lyrics to make lyrics videos to put on YouTube (I already made some, actually, and a few more that I didn't upload). I got the lyrics from someone in another prayer room in another city, followed by a message saying basically "Oh no! I shouldn't have sent it to you! It's copyright and we don't have the license to share those songs so don't ever share this to anybody!" The reason is that the original English author didn't authorise the translation, so what they're doing is breaking copyright and they're afraid that if they become famous, they'll get caught. I've procrastinated uploading more lyrics to Pingtype because of these issues. Meanwhile I use my personal copy in church, and it's great to sing along with everyone else and learn Chinese while doing so. I tried contacting CCLI to get a license from the original authors of the songs, but they don't operate in Taiwan. I'm seriously considering just posting my painstakingly-clipped MP3s and the lyrics files on some pirate sites and letting the Internet do what it does best.
- dizzystar 9y ago
  >>> I got the lyrics from someone in another prayer room in another city, followed by a message saying basically "Oh no! I shouldn't have sent it to you! It's copyright and we don't have the license to share those songs so don't ever share this to anybody!" The reason is that the original English author didn't authorise the translation, so what they're doing is breaking copyright and they're afraid that if they become famous, they'll get caught. Covers are compulsory in the United States. The requirement is that you have to pay a certain portion of the profits to the copyright holder.
  - peterburkimsher 9y ago
    I can pay 100% of the profits to the copyright holder! I'm not making any money, so 100% of zero is still $0. The whole thing is fan-made. But the prayer rooms are arguably a "public performance", and that comes with even more complicated licensing issues. I'm trying to contact the original musicians, but Hillsong and Bethel don't answer their email - they redirect all enquiries to CCLI, who don't operate in this country. So there's no way to pay to make it legal.
    - geofft 9y ago
      One thing to note is that at least in the US, the compulsory licensing scheme for recordings of covers involves paying a fixed amount per copy (a couple of cents), even if you charge nothing at all. (Also, it doesn't apply to things that aren't recordings at all, including live performances, as you say, or written or electronic copies of sheet music / lyrics.)
      - dizzystar 9y ago
        I think his main concern is about the difference in countries, as it appears he is talking about Taiwan. You absolutely have to pay performance royalties for live performances. You can ask the dozens of bars that has been sued over this, and go to nearly any bar in LA that bans cover material (at open mics even) over this issue. It's mainly about paying ASCAP and BMI a license I would think churches are a different story entirely as that is a non-profit center. In any case, if you post a cover on YouTube, you will be fine. The site wouldn't exist today if it wasn't for the legal wrangling they did to ensure songwriters got paid something.
- geofft 9y ago
  The whole thing where people insist on copyright for worship songs has bothered me for years. I understand that composers and artists need to get paid, and I'm certainly fine with enforcing copyright for recordings, but the whole idea behind this particular style of worship music is that the songs are easy to memorize and teach orally. It's one thing if you're, say, dc Talk and people learn your lyrics because they're listening to your albums a lot, it's quite another if you're, say, Hillsong and you go out of your way to write melodies and lyrics are easily learnable, and then you (or your agent, I guess) says that you may not distribute written copies of the lyrics. I've sort of wondered whether writing a bunch of Creative Commons-licensed worship music and trying to make it popular would be a good way to solve this problem.
  - peterburkimsher 9y ago
    Please write that Creative Commons-licensed music! I'm also looking more into the old hymns, which are probably out of copyright by now, and also have translations. Another thing I noticed is that many worship songs use all the same words [1]. Therefore I'm considering making my own (illegal) translations, and talking about those with my Chinese tutor every week. I could then upload it with Pingtype English (which does English->Chinese translation) as a way for people to learn English. If it's my own translation, at least my friends from the prayer room won't cause trouble for me when I share it - only the original authors. And then I'd just take it down if someone really does send me a DMCA. [1] See this video for a humorous take on this: How to Write a Worship Song (In 5 Minutes or Less) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYuA0Cz8ls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYuA0Cz8ls
  - analog31 9y ago
    Fortunately, the only worship songs I've ever really enjoyed were out of copyright by at least 200 years, and typically sung in Latin. ;-) But interestingly, people have talked about creating public domain or free use literature for live music performance. A friend of mine tried to do this. He had the idea to create his own book of tunes (it helps that he's a composer with a music theory degree) so he could book a band into venues that didn't have ASCAP/BMI licenses. This was in the jazz genre, rather than worship music. I'm a jazz musician. He told me that despite being completely above board, the venues still received a threatening visit from the performance rights organizations, and were talked out of hosting live music.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
ilammy 9y ago
How is it legal to repost them on the interwebs then? Fair use on the basis of quotation when reposted vebatim, and on the basis of parody when reposted with a funny caption on top?
- distances 9y ago
  It's not legal. Most of Internet pictures and memes are blatant copyright infringements. The copyright holders usually don't care unless you try to make money with it.
distantsounds 9y ago
Ah yes, the chilling, cold reality of being unable to sell someone else's intellectual property for a profit. Curse you, copyright law!

by lxe 9y ago

peterburkimsher 9y ago

The cold reality of copyright law is having a chilling effect, causing me to not share content for fear of being sued. Case in point: bilingual songs. all of the italic items are illegal I go to a prayer room in Taiwan, and the musicians there have translated many famous Christian songs into Chinese. I got their lyrics as PDFs and converted those to TXT so I can use it with my http://pingtype.github.io http://pingtype.github.io translator app. They stream their 2-hour sets on YouTube and Facebook. I downloaded those and cut out the MP3s. I want to combine the audio with the lyrics to make lyrics videos to put on YouTube (I already made some, actually, and a few more that I didn't upload). I got the lyrics from someone in another prayer room in another city, followed by a message saying basically "Oh no! I shouldn't have sent it to you! It's copyright and we don't have the license to share those songs so don't ever share this to anybody!" The reason is that the original English author didn't authorise the translation, so what they're doing is breaking copyright and they're afraid that if they become famous, they'll get caught. I've procrastinated uploading more lyrics to Pingtype because of these issues. Meanwhile I use my personal copy in church, and it's great to sing along with everyone else and learn Chinese while doing so. I tried contacting CCLI to get a license from the original authors of the songs, but they don't operate in Taiwan. I'm seriously considering just posting my painstakingly-clipped MP3s and the lyrics files on some pirate sites and letting the Internet do what it does best.

dizzystar 9y ago
>>> I got the lyrics from someone in another prayer room in another city, followed by a message saying basically "Oh no! I shouldn't have sent it to you! It's copyright and we don't have the license to share those songs so don't ever share this to anybody!" The reason is that the original English author didn't authorise the translation, so what they're doing is breaking copyright and they're afraid that if they become famous, they'll get caught. Covers are compulsory in the United States. The requirement is that you have to pay a certain portion of the profits to the copyright holder.
- peterburkimsher 9y ago
  I can pay 100% of the profits to the copyright holder! I'm not making any money, so 100% of zero is still $0. The whole thing is fan-made. But the prayer rooms are arguably a "public performance", and that comes with even more complicated licensing issues. I'm trying to contact the original musicians, but Hillsong and Bethel don't answer their email - they redirect all enquiries to CCLI, who don't operate in this country. So there's no way to pay to make it legal.
  - geofft 9y ago
    One thing to note is that at least in the US, the compulsory licensing scheme for recordings of covers involves paying a fixed amount per copy (a couple of cents), even if you charge nothing at all. (Also, it doesn't apply to things that aren't recordings at all, including live performances, as you say, or written or electronic copies of sheet music / lyrics.)
    - dizzystar 9y ago
      I think his main concern is about the difference in countries, as it appears he is talking about Taiwan. You absolutely have to pay performance royalties for live performances. You can ask the dozens of bars that has been sued over this, and go to nearly any bar in LA that bans cover material (at open mics even) over this issue. It's mainly about paying ASCAP and BMI a license I would think churches are a different story entirely as that is a non-profit center. In any case, if you post a cover on YouTube, you will be fine. The site wouldn't exist today if it wasn't for the legal wrangling they did to ensure songwriters got paid something.
geofft 9y ago
The whole thing where people insist on copyright for worship songs has bothered me for years. I understand that composers and artists need to get paid, and I'm certainly fine with enforcing copyright for recordings, but the whole idea behind this particular style of worship music is that the songs are easy to memorize and teach orally. It's one thing if you're, say, dc Talk and people learn your lyrics because they're listening to your albums a lot, it's quite another if you're, say, Hillsong and you go out of your way to write melodies and lyrics are easily learnable, and then you (or your agent, I guess) says that you may not distribute written copies of the lyrics. I've sort of wondered whether writing a bunch of Creative Commons-licensed worship music and trying to make it popular would be a good way to solve this problem.
- peterburkimsher 9y ago
  Please write that Creative Commons-licensed music! I'm also looking more into the old hymns, which are probably out of copyright by now, and also have translations. Another thing I noticed is that many worship songs use all the same words [1]. Therefore I'm considering making my own (illegal) translations, and talking about those with my Chinese tutor every week. I could then upload it with Pingtype English (which does English->Chinese translation) as a way for people to learn English. If it's my own translation, at least my friends from the prayer room won't cause trouble for me when I share it - only the original authors. And then I'd just take it down if someone really does send me a DMCA. [1] See this video for a humorous take on this: How to Write a Worship Song (In 5 Minutes or Less) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYuA0Cz8ls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYuA0Cz8ls
- analog31 9y ago
  Fortunately, the only worship songs I've ever really enjoyed were out of copyright by at least 200 years, and typically sung in Latin. ;-) But interestingly, people have talked about creating public domain or free use literature for live music performance. A friend of mine tried to do this. He had the idea to create his own book of tunes (it helps that he's a composer with a music theory degree) so he could book a band into venues that didn't have ASCAP/BMI licenses. This was in the jazz genre, rather than worship music. I'm a jazz musician. He told me that despite being completely above board, the venues still received a threatening visit from the performance rights organizations, and were talked out of hosting live music.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

ilammy 9y ago

How is it legal to repost them on the interwebs then? Fair use on the basis of quotation when reposted vebatim, and on the basis of parody when reposted with a funny caption on top?

distances 9y ago
It's not legal. Most of Internet pictures and memes are blatant copyright infringements. The copyright holders usually don't care unless you try to make money with it.

distantsounds 9y ago

Ah yes, the chilling, cold reality of being unable to sell someone else's intellectual property for a profit. Curse you, copyright law!