6 ms·

From where are you getting your data? AFAIK sectarian violence has killed many, many more Muslims than the US. And terrorist organizations existed before the

by tkahn6 16y ago

From where are you getting your data? AFAIK sectarian violence has killed many, many more Muslims than the US. And terrorist organizations existed before the US invaded Iraq. EDIT: I gather from your comment that you believe terrorism committed against Western civilians is a reasonable response to the way the US has handled the war in Iraq. Correct?

MichaelSalib 16y ago
From where are you getting your data? Excess mortality figures derived from several published cluster sampling studies and then extrapolated to cover the period of greatest violence. AFAIK sectarian violence has killed many, many more Muslims than the US. Please read my comment carefully. I said the US government started a war that killed a million Iraqis. The sectarian violence of which you speak was not a significant issue before the war. And terrorist organizations existed before the US invaded Iraq. Very true. But it seems that various western countries have done other things to kill and maim large numbers of Arabs and Muslims before the war. For example, Mohamed Atta appears to have become radicalized by watching Israeli attacks against Lebanese civilians. I gather from your comment that you believe terrorism committed against Western civilians is a reasonable response to the way the US has handled the war in Iraq. Correct? No, that is incorrect. I think attacking random people associated with the government that killed your family is morally wrong. But I also think it is a very understandable response, one that almost anyone here might engage in. Because that's how human beings operate. I marvel at your inability to distinguish between normative and positive statements. You never answered my question though: how many of your friends and family would I have to kill before you turned to violent revenge?
- tkahn6 16y ago
  Please read my comment carefully. I said the US government started a war that killed a million Iraqis. The sectarian violence of which you speak was not a significant issue before the war. Your use of the word 'exterminated' makes it sound like you're arguing that the US is directly responsible for Muslims killing Muslims. Sorry if I misunderstood you. You never answered my question though: how many of your friends and family would I have to kill before you turned to violent revenge? This is quite obviously a rhetorical question. However, the answer is "not many", but randomly murdering people wouldn't be my response. I also would like to see a source that says Israel intentionally attacked Lebanese civilians.
  - MichaelSalib 16y ago
    Your use of the word 'exterminated' makes it sound like you're arguing that the US is directly responsible for Muslims killing Muslims. In general, wars tend to cause lots and lots of people to die. That means that countries that starts wars for no good reason are responsible for the resulting deaths. randomly murdering people wouldn't be my response I'm glad to hear that your violent revenge would stop just short of murder. Brave talk from a man who hasn't lost much. I also would like to see a source that says Israel intentionally attacked Lebanese civilians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shelling_of_Qana#Mohamed_Atta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shelling_of_Qana#Mohamed_A... says "A United Nations military investigation later determined it was unlikely that Israeli shelling of the U.N. compound was the result of technical or procedural errors."
    - tkahn6 16y ago
      I'm glad to hear that your violent revenge would stop just short of murder. Brave talk from a man who hasn't lost much I never said I wouldn't kill you if you killed my friends and family. Murdering random people in response to your actions is not only morally wrong, but also stupid and throughly irrational. You are apologizing for people who do this because you claim it's "a natural human response". Killing random people is not a natural human response; in my opinion, it's the response of a psychopath.
      - MichaelSalib 16y ago
        it's the response of a psychopath Perhaps. But I don't think you are very familiar with history. I've read many accounts of soldiers, including American soldiers, killing random people because their friends were killed. In general, such people do not face discipline. In fact, there are many Americans who urged the killing of completely arbitrary Arabs or Muslims in revenge -- many of these people are politicians. My point is: this sort of psychopathy is quite common and very well accepted in society provided it is directed against out-groups.
        tkahn6 16y ago

by tkahn6 16y ago

MichaelSalib 16y ago

From where are you getting your data? Excess mortality figures derived from several published cluster sampling studies and then extrapolated to cover the period of greatest violence. AFAIK sectarian violence has killed many, many more Muslims than the US. Please read my comment carefully. I said the US government started a war that killed a million Iraqis. The sectarian violence of which you speak was not a significant issue before the war. And terrorist organizations existed before the US invaded Iraq. Very true. But it seems that various western countries have done other things to kill and maim large numbers of Arabs and Muslims before the war. For example, Mohamed Atta appears to have become radicalized by watching Israeli attacks against Lebanese civilians. I gather from your comment that you believe terrorism committed against Western civilians is a reasonable response to the way the US has handled the war in Iraq. Correct? No, that is incorrect. I think attacking random people associated with the government that killed your family is morally wrong. But I also think it is a very understandable response, one that almost anyone here might engage in. Because that's how human beings operate. I marvel at your inability to distinguish between normative and positive statements. You never answered my question though: how many of your friends and family would I have to kill before you turned to violent revenge?

tkahn6 16y ago
Please read my comment carefully. I said the US government started a war that killed a million Iraqis. The sectarian violence of which you speak was not a significant issue before the war. Your use of the word 'exterminated' makes it sound like you're arguing that the US is directly responsible for Muslims killing Muslims. Sorry if I misunderstood you. You never answered my question though: how many of your friends and family would I have to kill before you turned to violent revenge? This is quite obviously a rhetorical question. However, the answer is "not many", but randomly murdering people wouldn't be my response. I also would like to see a source that says Israel intentionally attacked Lebanese civilians.
- MichaelSalib 16y ago
  Your use of the word 'exterminated' makes it sound like you're arguing that the US is directly responsible for Muslims killing Muslims. In general, wars tend to cause lots and lots of people to die. That means that countries that starts wars for no good reason are responsible for the resulting deaths. randomly murdering people wouldn't be my response I'm glad to hear that your violent revenge would stop just short of murder. Brave talk from a man who hasn't lost much. I also would like to see a source that says Israel intentionally attacked Lebanese civilians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shelling_of_Qana#Mohamed_Atta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shelling_of_Qana#Mohamed_A... says "A United Nations military investigation later determined it was unlikely that Israeli shelling of the U.N. compound was the result of technical or procedural errors."
  - tkahn6 16y ago
    I'm glad to hear that your violent revenge would stop just short of murder. Brave talk from a man who hasn't lost much I never said I wouldn't kill you if you killed my friends and family. Murdering random people in response to your actions is not only morally wrong, but also stupid and throughly irrational. You are apologizing for people who do this because you claim it's "a natural human response". Killing random people is not a natural human response; in my opinion, it's the response of a psychopath.
    - MichaelSalib 16y ago
      it's the response of a psychopath Perhaps. But I don't think you are very familiar with history. I've read many accounts of soldiers, including American soldiers, killing random people because their friends were killed. In general, such people do not face discipline. In fact, there are many Americans who urged the killing of completely arbitrary Arabs or Muslims in revenge -- many of these people are politicians. My point is: this sort of psychopathy is quite common and very well accepted in society provided it is directed against out-groups.
      - tkahn6 16y ago