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Weird to reference people who want to work a job where they can live a modest life a parasite. Can't really add 'value' when there's aren't any jobs that needs

Weird to reference people who want to work a job where they can live a modest life a parasite. Can't really add 'value' when there's aren't any jobs that needs to be filled. Alot people are going to be displaced in the following years and we must remember these people are moms, fathers, brothers, sisters, etc. They are not just statistics to be discussed. It would be great if there were more tech news of giving people jobs instead of taking them away.

natosaichek 9y ago
I mentally struggled while making the choice to use that phrase. I don't think any of the individuals want to be a parasite. I think they want to be valuable and rewarded for the value they add. There's nothing wrong with wanting to live a normal modest life with a normal paycheck that lets you raise a family, buy a house, etc. I think that's all most people want. The only way that is possible, though, is if one adds value to the company or organization one works for. If you actively harm the company or organization, your value is negative, and you are actively killing the organization that is distributing paychecks. I blame the union for short-sighted thinking, not the individual workers for wanting job security. Maybe that's a bad biological analogy... can you think of a better one? It seems like if an individual or group of individuals in an organization are not useful, but want to keep receiving benefits... well, the closest analogy I could find is maybe a leech or tapeworm or something like that. Maybe an appendix or a whithered arm? Maybe I'm being uncharitable, but that won't change the reality of what happens when the business is outcompeted and everyone is out of a job. The union cannot create a company - only provide some protections against certain classes of management decisions. Once there is no management because there's no company, the union will die. :-/
- wpdev_63 9y ago
  They are not parasites. And I am now questioning where's your humanity. Would you be saying the same thing if your mom or dad was in the said union? I don't expect you to see eye to eye but I want to say progress at the expense of people's lives isn't something to be proud of. You know what would be great?! If we could make poverty obsolete or even just hunger. There's going to be alot of people in that situation because of this. Maybe your too high in your ivory tower to see it.
  - natosaichek 9y ago
    I don't want anyone to suffer. I'm pointing out that if people kill their company, they'll be out of a job. If you think the analogy is inaccurate, I invite you to explain how what the union is doing is _not_ parasitic, rather than making emotional appeals. I think that progress at the expense of people's lives _isn't_ progress. I think progress is the improvement of people's lives. I think that the union policies will harm people's lives, which is why I'm opposed to it.
    - wpdev_63 9y ago
      Unions are there to protect worker rights and to help them gain a livable wage. Even in my last job people were talking about creating a programmer's union to prevent all the unpaid overtime we do. This type of progress is only going to put alot of people out on the street and make the rich richer. They are not parasites to the company because the company runs better with people running it. Simplifying a union's relationship to a company as a value proposition is asinine. There's a bigger picture that must be looked at. People are more important than machines. Even if we fight alot.
- ako 9y ago
  In this case you're also exhibiting short-sightedness: why stop at the level of value for companies, why not think about what it takes to have a successful, stable, sustainable society? What if in a few years for 80% of the people there will be now way they can add value to companies? Let them rot in the gettho's? Is that the society you want?
  - slededit 9y ago
    Humanity has gone through eras with various rates of change, and generally speaking the ones with the most change have resulted in the greatest improvements in our standard of living. Its possible that we've reached the pinnacle and we'd all be better off just staying here at this local maxima, but history suggests otherwise.

natosaichek 9y ago

I mentally struggled while making the choice to use that phrase. I don't think any of the individuals want to be a parasite. I think they want to be valuable and rewarded for the value they add. There's nothing wrong with wanting to live a normal modest life with a normal paycheck that lets you raise a family, buy a house, etc. I think that's all most people want. The only way that is possible, though, is if one adds value to the company or organization one works for. If you actively harm the company or organization, your value is negative, and you are actively killing the organization that is distributing paychecks. I blame the union for short-sighted thinking, not the individual workers for wanting job security. Maybe that's a bad biological analogy... can you think of a better one? It seems like if an individual or group of individuals in an organization are not useful, but want to keep receiving benefits... well, the closest analogy I could find is maybe a leech or tapeworm or something like that. Maybe an appendix or a whithered arm? Maybe I'm being uncharitable, but that won't change the reality of what happens when the business is outcompeted and everyone is out of a job. The union cannot create a company - only provide some protections against certain classes of management decisions. Once there is no management because there's no company, the union will die. :-/

wpdev_63 9y ago
They are not parasites. And I am now questioning where's your humanity. Would you be saying the same thing if your mom or dad was in the said union? I don't expect you to see eye to eye but I want to say progress at the expense of people's lives isn't something to be proud of. You know what would be great?! If we could make poverty obsolete or even just hunger. There's going to be alot of people in that situation because of this. Maybe your too high in your ivory tower to see it.
- natosaichek 9y ago
  I don't want anyone to suffer. I'm pointing out that if people kill their company, they'll be out of a job. If you think the analogy is inaccurate, I invite you to explain how what the union is doing is _not_ parasitic, rather than making emotional appeals. I think that progress at the expense of people's lives _isn't_ progress. I think progress is the improvement of people's lives. I think that the union policies will harm people's lives, which is why I'm opposed to it.
  - wpdev_63 9y ago
    Unions are there to protect worker rights and to help them gain a livable wage. Even in my last job people were talking about creating a programmer's union to prevent all the unpaid overtime we do. This type of progress is only going to put alot of people out on the street and make the rich richer. They are not parasites to the company because the company runs better with people running it. Simplifying a union's relationship to a company as a value proposition is asinine. There's a bigger picture that must be looked at. People are more important than machines. Even if we fight alot.
ako 9y ago
In this case you're also exhibiting short-sightedness: why stop at the level of value for companies, why not think about what it takes to have a successful, stable, sustainable society? What if in a few years for 80% of the people there will be now way they can add value to companies? Let them rot in the gettho's? Is that the society you want?
- slededit 9y ago
  Humanity has gone through eras with various rates of change, and generally speaking the ones with the most change have resulted in the greatest improvements in our standard of living. Its possible that we've reached the pinnacle and we'd all be better off just staying here at this local maxima, but history suggests otherwise.