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Terror organizations may primarily recruit from impoverished Muslim societies but they don't always. I have not researched this with any rigour, but there do se

by tkahn6 16y ago

Terror organizations may primarily recruit from impoverished Muslim societies but they don't always. I have not researched this with any rigour, but there do seem to be quite a few Muslims from wealthy Western nations that have joined terrorist organizations. What draws these Muslims? This is a genuine question and not rhetorical.

MaysonL 16y ago
Well, if you look at western terrorist organizations (e.g. Weather Underground, Red Army Faction, Baader-Meinhof) they recruited many members from wealthy Western nations, very few if any being Mualims. People everywhere (especially young people) are often susceptible to recruitment by charismatic leaders with extremist rhetoric. This is especially true when there is highly visible injustice to be exploited.
MichaelSalib 16y ago
Well, the US government started a war for no reason in Iraq that exterminated a million people. Don't you think bringing about the deaths of a million Muslims for no apparent reason might enrage some people? How many of your friends and family would I have to brutally murder before you said "screw it, I'm going to devote my life to revenge or maybe to just stopping you from killing more people"?
- tkahn6 16y ago
  From where are you getting your data? AFAIK sectarian violence has killed many, many more Muslims than the US. And terrorist organizations existed before the US invaded Iraq. EDIT: I gather from your comment that you believe terrorism committed against Western civilians is a reasonable response to the way the US has handled the war in Iraq. Correct?
  - MichaelSalib 16y ago
    From where are you getting your data? Excess mortality figures derived from several published cluster sampling studies and then extrapolated to cover the period of greatest violence. AFAIK sectarian violence has killed many, many more Muslims than the US. Please read my comment carefully. I said the US government started a war that killed a million Iraqis. The sectarian violence of which you speak was not a significant issue before the war. And terrorist organizations existed before the US invaded Iraq. Very true. But it seems that various western countries have done other things to kill and maim large numbers of Arabs and Muslims before the war. For example, Mohamed Atta appears to have become radicalized by watching Israeli attacks against Lebanese civilians. I gather from your comment that you believe terrorism committed against Western civilians is a reasonable response to the way the US has handled the war in Iraq. Correct? No, that is incorrect. I think attacking random people associated with the government that killed your family is morally wrong. But I also think it is a very understandable response, one that almost anyone here might engage in. Because that's how human beings operate. I marvel at your inability to distinguish between normative and positive statements. You never answered my question though: how many of your friends and family would I have to kill before you turned to violent revenge?
    - tkahn6 16y ago
      Please read my comment carefully. I said the US government started a war that killed a million Iraqis. The sectarian violence of which you speak was not a significant issue before the war. Your use of the word 'exterminated' makes it sound like you're arguing that the US is directly responsible for Muslims killing Muslims. Sorry if I misunderstood you. You never answered my question though: how many of your friends and family would I have to kill before you turned to violent revenge? This is quite obviously a rhetorical question. However, the answer is "not many", but randomly murdering people wouldn't be my response. I also would like to see a source that says Israel intentionally attacked Lebanese civilians.
      - MichaelSalib 16y ago
        Your use of the word 'exterminated' makes it sound like you're arguing that the US is directly responsible for Muslims killing Muslims. In general, wars tend to cause lots and lots of people to die. That means that countries that starts wars for no good reason are responsible for the resulting deaths. randomly murdering people wouldn't be my response I'm glad to hear that your violent revenge would stop just short of murder. Brave talk from a man who hasn't lost much. I also would like to see a source that says Israel intentionally attacked Lebanese civilians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shelling_of_Qana#Mohamed_Atta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shelling_of_Qana#Mohamed_A... says "A United Nations military investigation later determined it was unlikely that Israeli shelling of the U.N. compound was the result of technical or procedural errors."
        tkahn6 16y ago
        I'm glad to hear that your violent revenge would stop just short of murder. Brave talk from a man who hasn't lost much I never said I wouldn't kill you if you killed my friends and family. Murdering random people in response to your actions is not only morally wrong, but also stupid and throughly irrational. You are apologizing for people who do this because you claim it's "a natural human response". Killing random people is not a natural human response; in my opinion, it's the response of a psychopath.

by tkahn6 16y ago

MaysonL 16y ago

Well, if you look at western terrorist organizations (e.g. Weather Underground, Red Army Faction, Baader-Meinhof) they recruited many members from wealthy Western nations, very few if any being Mualims. People everywhere (especially young people) are often susceptible to recruitment by charismatic leaders with extremist rhetoric. This is especially true when there is highly visible injustice to be exploited.

MichaelSalib 16y ago

Well, the US government started a war for no reason in Iraq that exterminated a million people. Don't you think bringing about the deaths of a million Muslims for no apparent reason might enrage some people? How many of your friends and family would I have to brutally murder before you said "screw it, I'm going to devote my life to revenge or maybe to just stopping you from killing more people"?

tkahn6 16y ago
From where are you getting your data? AFAIK sectarian violence has killed many, many more Muslims than the US. And terrorist organizations existed before the US invaded Iraq. EDIT: I gather from your comment that you believe terrorism committed against Western civilians is a reasonable response to the way the US has handled the war in Iraq. Correct?
- MichaelSalib 16y ago
  From where are you getting your data? Excess mortality figures derived from several published cluster sampling studies and then extrapolated to cover the period of greatest violence. AFAIK sectarian violence has killed many, many more Muslims than the US. Please read my comment carefully. I said the US government started a war that killed a million Iraqis. The sectarian violence of which you speak was not a significant issue before the war. And terrorist organizations existed before the US invaded Iraq. Very true. But it seems that various western countries have done other things to kill and maim large numbers of Arabs and Muslims before the war. For example, Mohamed Atta appears to have become radicalized by watching Israeli attacks against Lebanese civilians. I gather from your comment that you believe terrorism committed against Western civilians is a reasonable response to the way the US has handled the war in Iraq. Correct? No, that is incorrect. I think attacking random people associated with the government that killed your family is morally wrong. But I also think it is a very understandable response, one that almost anyone here might engage in. Because that's how human beings operate. I marvel at your inability to distinguish between normative and positive statements. You never answered my question though: how many of your friends and family would I have to kill before you turned to violent revenge?
  - tkahn6 16y ago
    Please read my comment carefully. I said the US government started a war that killed a million Iraqis. The sectarian violence of which you speak was not a significant issue before the war. Your use of the word 'exterminated' makes it sound like you're arguing that the US is directly responsible for Muslims killing Muslims. Sorry if I misunderstood you. You never answered my question though: how many of your friends and family would I have to kill before you turned to violent revenge? This is quite obviously a rhetorical question. However, the answer is "not many", but randomly murdering people wouldn't be my response. I also would like to see a source that says Israel intentionally attacked Lebanese civilians.
    - MichaelSalib 16y ago
      Your use of the word 'exterminated' makes it sound like you're arguing that the US is directly responsible for Muslims killing Muslims. In general, wars tend to cause lots and lots of people to die. That means that countries that starts wars for no good reason are responsible for the resulting deaths. randomly murdering people wouldn't be my response I'm glad to hear that your violent revenge would stop just short of murder. Brave talk from a man who hasn't lost much. I also would like to see a source that says Israel intentionally attacked Lebanese civilians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shelling_of_Qana#Mohamed_Atta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shelling_of_Qana#Mohamed_A... says "A United Nations military investigation later determined it was unlikely that Israeli shelling of the U.N. compound was the result of technical or procedural errors."
      - tkahn6 16y ago
        I'm glad to hear that your violent revenge would stop just short of murder. Brave talk from a man who hasn't lost much I never said I wouldn't kill you if you killed my friends and family. Murdering random people in response to your actions is not only morally wrong, but also stupid and throughly irrational. You are apologizing for people who do this because you claim it's "a natural human response". Killing random people is not a natural human response; in my opinion, it's the response of a psychopath.