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> Another big change that can be attributed to developers starting at a later age is that programming is a lot harder now. The BASIC dialects, which many people

> Another big change that can be attributed to developers starting at a later age is that programming is a lot harder now. The BASIC dialects, which many people learned to program with in the 1980’s, have largely taken a back seat to more powerful (but more complicated) languages like Python, JavaScript, and Java. I think the author is romanticizing the past too much and could probably use a good refresher course on the history of CS and programming languages.

detaro 9y ago
Agreed. Discovery might be harder in some ways (doesn't ship with a normal PC (well, a JS interpreter does), you'd have to know/figure out which of the thousands of options is a good one), but other than that I'd say e.g. basic Python is as accessible as BASIC, and you can easily get a treasure trove of information about it. Python is a more complex language, but you don't need all of it.
- mikestew 9y ago
  How long from the time I power on until I print “mikestew is awesome.” in a loop in Python, on a fresh install of $OS? On an Atari 800 or Apple II, the answer is “how fast can you type two lines of code?”
  - detaro 9y ago
    A few minutes. I don't think the time necessary is all that important.
    - taserian 9y ago
      What I feel is most important is reducing the amount of "friction". if the OS is a GUI Linux with Python, it's just a matter of: - opening a terminal - `python` - `print "mikestew"` The friction to get over is the Terminal ("You mean I have to type to get the computer to do something? Why can't I use my mouse?", and the situation if the above fails because you were using Python 2 or 3.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Discovery might be harder in some ways “Might be”? I mean, compared to “boots to BASIC REPL” (or even “boots to DOS prompt”), discoverability of a minimal usable programming environment on modern consumer OSs is much worse.

detaro 9y ago

Agreed. Discovery might be harder in some ways (doesn't ship with a normal PC (well, a JS interpreter does), you'd have to know/figure out which of the thousands of options is a good one), but other than that I'd say e.g. basic Python is as accessible as BASIC, and you can easily get a treasure trove of information about it. Python is a more complex language, but you don't need all of it.

mikestew 9y ago
How long from the time I power on until I print “mikestew is awesome.” in a loop in Python, on a fresh install of $OS? On an Atari 800 or Apple II, the answer is “how fast can you type two lines of code?”
- detaro 9y ago
  A few minutes. I don't think the time necessary is all that important.
  - taserian 9y ago
    What I feel is most important is reducing the amount of "friction". if the OS is a GUI Linux with Python, it's just a matter of: - opening a terminal - `python` - `print "mikestew"` The friction to get over is the Terminal ("You mean I have to type to get the computer to do something? Why can't I use my mouse?", and the situation if the above fails because you were using Python 2 or 3.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Discovery might be harder in some ways “Might be”? I mean, compared to “boots to BASIC REPL” (or even “boots to DOS prompt”), discoverability of a minimal usable programming environment on modern consumer OSs is much worse.