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The problem with Milton's Paradise Lost is that it's misinterpreted the way you're currently misinterpreting it. Milton didn't seek to characterize a Satan that

The problem with Milton's Paradise Lost is that it's misinterpreted the way you're currently misinterpreting it. Milton didn't seek to characterize a Satan that is worthy of our admiration. Indeed, there's an innate Libertarian core that resides within us all but Milton sought to, like GRRM in the Games of Throne books, expose how morally bankrupt some of us are for admiring an individual such as Satan merely because of his desire to be 'free'. We thus conveniently forget all of the evil that Satan commits because we see something in him that resides within us: an innate desire to, as Rousseau refers to extensively, to be freed of the shackles of tyranny from above.

68c12c16 9y ago
Thanks for helping me to better get that message. I agree and that's what I have always been feeling a bit puzzled about, as in 17th century England, religious correctness is still not a trivial thing. But in a certain sense, Satan is not absolutely evil and not having no good characters at all. For instance, as the example mentioned in the article, Satan is quite empathetic towards his fellow fallen angels -- and this empathy, would often invoke reader's empathy to a certain extent. So perhaps Milton hopes to create a Satan that has some subtle and mixed characters, with depth, with a spectrum of shades. I feel this method is similarly employed in many Shakespeare's plays (such as Angelo in Measure for Measure), which were written even earlier than Paradise Lost.
- mrec 9y ago
  Interesting comparison. Angelo's defining characteristic is his hypocrisy, which at times is really vile, but his fall does at least humanize him to the audience by contrast to his earlier presentation as an ice-blooded robot "begot between two stock-fishes". And there's a lot of that in Milton's Satan too. He's undeniably colourful, but seriously, complaining to his companions how crappy it is to reigned over while at the same time declaring his own ambition to reign over them? That doesn't strike me as a libertarian sentiment, more of a narcissistic rational-egoist one.
  - 68c12c16 9y ago
    I feel another place in Measure for Measure that also indicates the depth and the subtlety of Angelo's character is that his monologue in Act II Scene IV, When I would pray and think, I think and pray To several subjects. Heaven hath my empty words; Whilst my invention, hearing not my tongue, Anchors on Isabel: Heaven in my mouth, As if I did but only chew his name; And in my heart the strong and swelling evil Of my conception. The state, whereon I studied Is like a good thing, being often read, Grown fear'd and tedious; yea, my gravity, Wherein--let no man hear me--I take pride, Could I with boot change for an idle plume, Which the air beats for vain. O place, O form, How often dost thou with thy case, thy habit, Wrench awe from fools and tie the wiser souls To thy false seeming! Blood, thou art blood: Let's write good angel on the devil's horn: 'Tis not the devil's crest. Clearly, Angelo feels a certain conflict in his heart, and he struggles hard with this cognitive dissonance, which shows that he is not utterly evil. And there's a lot of that in Milton's Satan too. He's undeniably colourful, but seriously, complaining to his companions how crappy it is to reigned over while at the same time declaring his own ambition to reign over them. I am not that sure to what extent this reign is over them; and who those "them" are? It might not necessarily mean his fellow fallen angels but those dead souls in hell... And also, he is having a conference with his comrades in Pandæmonium, right? In this sense, his power over his comrades -- if he is superior -- is not absolute, as at least he consults them, unlike that in heaven...
    - mrec 9y ago
      > which shows that he is not utterly evil Oh, no, I certainly wasn't suggesting that. If you squint a bit you can almost see Angelo as a tragic hero undone by his own virtues; piety and self-restraint have always come so naturally to him that he's never had to build up the moral muscle required to resist temptation. So when he does fall, he falls hard. > I am not that sure to what extent this reign is over them; and who those "them" are? A good point.
- Chaebixi 9y ago
  > But in a certain sense, Satan is not absolutely evil and not having no good characters at all. For instance, as the example mentioned in the article, Satan is quite empathetic towards his fellow fallen angels -- and this empathy, would often invoke reader's empathy to a certain extent. Or he has the charisma of a sociopath. From the OP: >>> The point of all this mirroring is to show how closely evil resembles good. Poole writes in Milton and the Making of Paradise Lost that Milton “regards evil as disarmingly close in appearance to the good,” and it is only by careful moral reasoning that the two can be separated. Shortly after Milton returned from Italy in 1639, where he met Galileo and spent several months participating in various Florentine literary salons, he wrote in his commonplace book, “In moral evil much good may be mixed, and that with singular craft.” >>> .... >>> In short, Satan says all the rightly compassionate things only to the “right” people, who are, of course, his people, and only when his own interests are at stake. He is unflappable only in front of a crowd, courageous only when it is personally advantageous. He acts like a good leader, father, and husband—and even argues with nearly perfect reasoning that he is more morally upright than God himself—all while serving only himself. He is a god of unchecked liberty, and, therefore, in Milton’s view, a god of chaos and destruction.
taneq 9y ago
I'm not super familiar with Christian canon but what specific evil did Satan commit? (Both in Paradise Lost and in the original source material, I mean.) I remember reading a bunch stuff where he's called bad things (deceiver, defiler, whatever) but I'd be curious to know what he actually did that was bad (aside from the initial "refusing to bow to God" incident.)
- wincy 9y ago
  If I recall he waged war against God with part of the hosts of heaven? Who were then corrupted and cast down to Hell with Satan. It’s been a couple months since I read Paradise Lost though.
  - anentropic 9y ago
    But so what? Where is the evil?
    - taneq 9y ago
      I believe in this context, "evil" means "against God" or "not according to God's will" (though how that's possible when God is defined as omnipotent, I don't understand) and so doesn't align with our own usual moral compass which defines evil as some variant of "hurting people".
    - dagw 9y ago
      The war against God is not the primary source of his 'Evil'. His choice to get revenge on God by corrupting man and getting man cast out of paradise is probably his canonical 'evil' act.
      - michel__ 9y ago
        This comment right here is the correct answer and it is my hope that others come across it.
      - jessaustin 9y ago

68c12c16 9y ago

Thanks for helping me to better get that message. I agree and that's what I have always been feeling a bit puzzled about, as in 17th century England, religious correctness is still not a trivial thing. But in a certain sense, Satan is not absolutely evil and not having no good characters at all. For instance, as the example mentioned in the article, Satan is quite empathetic towards his fellow fallen angels -- and this empathy, would often invoke reader's empathy to a certain extent. So perhaps Milton hopes to create a Satan that has some subtle and mixed characters, with depth, with a spectrum of shades. I feel this method is similarly employed in many Shakespeare's plays (such as Angelo in Measure for Measure), which were written even earlier than Paradise Lost.

mrec 9y ago
Interesting comparison. Angelo's defining characteristic is his hypocrisy, which at times is really vile, but his fall does at least humanize him to the audience by contrast to his earlier presentation as an ice-blooded robot "begot between two stock-fishes". And there's a lot of that in Milton's Satan too. He's undeniably colourful, but seriously, complaining to his companions how crappy it is to reigned over while at the same time declaring his own ambition to reign over them? That doesn't strike me as a libertarian sentiment, more of a narcissistic rational-egoist one.
- 68c12c16 9y ago
  I feel another place in Measure for Measure that also indicates the depth and the subtlety of Angelo's character is that his monologue in Act II Scene IV, When I would pray and think, I think and pray To several subjects. Heaven hath my empty words; Whilst my invention, hearing not my tongue, Anchors on Isabel: Heaven in my mouth, As if I did but only chew his name; And in my heart the strong and swelling evil Of my conception. The state, whereon I studied Is like a good thing, being often read, Grown fear'd and tedious; yea, my gravity, Wherein--let no man hear me--I take pride, Could I with boot change for an idle plume, Which the air beats for vain. O place, O form, How often dost thou with thy case, thy habit, Wrench awe from fools and tie the wiser souls To thy false seeming! Blood, thou art blood: Let's write good angel on the devil's horn: 'Tis not the devil's crest. Clearly, Angelo feels a certain conflict in his heart, and he struggles hard with this cognitive dissonance, which shows that he is not utterly evil. And there's a lot of that in Milton's Satan too. He's undeniably colourful, but seriously, complaining to his companions how crappy it is to reigned over while at the same time declaring his own ambition to reign over them. I am not that sure to what extent this reign is over them; and who those "them" are? It might not necessarily mean his fellow fallen angels but those dead souls in hell... And also, he is having a conference with his comrades in Pandæmonium, right? In this sense, his power over his comrades -- if he is superior -- is not absolute, as at least he consults them, unlike that in heaven...
  - mrec 9y ago
    > which shows that he is not utterly evil Oh, no, I certainly wasn't suggesting that. If you squint a bit you can almost see Angelo as a tragic hero undone by his own virtues; piety and self-restraint have always come so naturally to him that he's never had to build up the moral muscle required to resist temptation. So when he does fall, he falls hard. > I am not that sure to what extent this reign is over them; and who those "them" are? A good point.
Chaebixi 9y ago
> But in a certain sense, Satan is not absolutely evil and not having no good characters at all. For instance, as the example mentioned in the article, Satan is quite empathetic towards his fellow fallen angels -- and this empathy, would often invoke reader's empathy to a certain extent. Or he has the charisma of a sociopath. From the OP: >>> The point of all this mirroring is to show how closely evil resembles good. Poole writes in Milton and the Making of Paradise Lost that Milton “regards evil as disarmingly close in appearance to the good,” and it is only by careful moral reasoning that the two can be separated. Shortly after Milton returned from Italy in 1639, where he met Galileo and spent several months participating in various Florentine literary salons, he wrote in his commonplace book, “In moral evil much good may be mixed, and that with singular craft.” >>> .... >>> In short, Satan says all the rightly compassionate things only to the “right” people, who are, of course, his people, and only when his own interests are at stake. He is unflappable only in front of a crowd, courageous only when it is personally advantageous. He acts like a good leader, father, and husband—and even argues with nearly perfect reasoning that he is more morally upright than God himself—all while serving only himself. He is a god of unchecked liberty, and, therefore, in Milton’s view, a god of chaos and destruction.

taneq 9y ago

I'm not super familiar with Christian canon but what specific evil did Satan commit? (Both in Paradise Lost and in the original source material, I mean.) I remember reading a bunch stuff where he's called bad things (deceiver, defiler, whatever) but I'd be curious to know what he actually did that was bad (aside from the initial "refusing to bow to God" incident.)

wincy 9y ago
If I recall he waged war against God with part of the hosts of heaven? Who were then corrupted and cast down to Hell with Satan. It’s been a couple months since I read Paradise Lost though.
- anentropic 9y ago
  But so what? Where is the evil?
  - taneq 9y ago
    I believe in this context, "evil" means "against God" or "not according to God's will" (though how that's possible when God is defined as omnipotent, I don't understand) and so doesn't align with our own usual moral compass which defines evil as some variant of "hurting people".
  - dagw 9y ago
    The war against God is not the primary source of his 'Evil'. His choice to get revenge on God by corrupting man and getting man cast out of paradise is probably his canonical 'evil' act.
    - michel__ 9y ago
      This comment right here is the correct answer and it is my hope that others come across it.
    - jessaustin 9y ago