5 ms·

Teamsters Tell UPS: No Drones or Driverless Trucks

23 points by poster123 9y ago

natosaichek 9y ago
Here's an article on the same topic but with no login required. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/24/labor-teamsters-want-to-ban-ups-from-using-drones-driverless-vehicles.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/24/labor-teamsters-want-to-ban-...
blackrock 9y ago
The future of delivery will be robotic. 1. A robot arm using cameras, sensors, and a AI neural network, will unload a truck, and put it on the conveyor belt. 2. Then the same AI robot arm will load a truck. I predict that in the future, a delivery guy will drive his van to your neighborhood, where he will have 5 deliveries to make. He will drive to the center of all the customers. Then, 5 robotic dogs, will take the package to each of the 5 customers. The robotic dog will scan the customer, get a face recognition for authorization, and a confirmation for hand-off. Meanwhile, the delivery guy is sitting in his car twittling his thumbs, waiting for the robotic dogs to come back. Ten minutes later, the robotic dogs come back, they charge back up in their docking stations, and the driver goes off to his next destination. The delivery guy will only be used to deliver extra bulky items, that the robotic dogs cannot yet handle. But future robotic dogs will be able to handle all kinds of bulky packages. In 15 minutes, 5 packages got delivered. At a rate of 3 minutes a package. This is incredible, and it will allow UPS to increase their package delivery throughput. Or, the driver will just drive closer to each of the customers. The robotic dog will deliver the package, while he drives to the next customer on the list. And when all packages are delivered on that route, then he'll come back and pick up each robotic dog, as they sit there waiting. If the unions stop UPS from automating, then they're going to kill themselves. Another company will take over, and their robotic fleet will put UPS out of business. They'll call themselves, the Robo Delivery Express (RDX). And for some other scenarios, drones are going to start aerial delivery. These are more practical for suburban houses with a large front yard. You will need at least a 10x10 sqft area for aerial drone delivery. A mid-sized drone will fly to your house, and hover over the delivery point. You will use your smartphone to authorize the hand-off. The drone gets the authorization to proceed. Cameras using an AI neural network, will scan the area to confirm safety, before initiating the delivery sequence, to make sure all is clear. Then a winch will wind down and gently put the package on the ground. Wind back up, take a last visual scan to make sure all is well, and then fly away. The future is robotic. It is inevitable.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- EpicEng 9y ago
  Why in the world would you need a nueral net to unload/load a truck?
  - DannyBee 9y ago
    Forklift driving? (I'm just spitballing)
    - EpicEng 9y ago
      OP was talking about a robotic arm to load/unload boxes onto a conveyor belt
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    Yeah! That's obviously a good use case for the Blockchain!
  - slededit 9y ago
    Odd sized packages, damaged packages, etc. It would be nice if everything was a standard size but thats not the reality.
- cr0sh 9y ago
  Why is the delivery guy needed? For the majority of packages and deliveries, it could be completely automated. Anything bulky or non-standard would either be a separate delivery, or require pickup. I think Amazon will be in this space first; heck, it might be most efficient (not energy-wise, of course) to just deliver the packages ad-hoc from the warehouse; imagine if their warehouse robots could leave the warehouse and deliver the package immediately - perhaps as soon as your order is completed! They already have the standard-sized packaging for most things; they'd just need "standard-sized robots" for the delivery to handle the packages. Or - in some far-off future that probably won't occur - imagine if the packaging boxes were the robots...
natosaichek 9y ago
Buggy whip makers tell buggy mfgs "No motors, no batteries, no gasoline" Seriously, do the teamsters not realize that if they cripple UPS's ability to compete that they'll just all be out of a job suddenly when UPS gets destroyed in the market? They need to figure out how humans can actually add value relative to the other options and implement those changes. They need to figure out how to long-term keep humans relevant to the delivery industry. These sorts of short-term hacks by the parasite will just kill the host.
- tabtab 9y ago
  Re: "Seriously, do the teamsters not realize that if they cripple UPS's ability to compete..." If and when competitors have it and start hurting UPS's business, the teamsters may relax the request. What UPS should do is make sure the contract allows them to still do R&D and small-scale trials. If and when a competitor comes along that is a serious threat to UPS's business, the teamsters will probably relax the production-based automation clauses. It's a compromise I think both sides would agree to. After all, they don't want to kill the hand that feeds them. The only actual thing UPS is sacrificing is being first-to-market with such automation. Just be ready to be 2nd.
  - andrewjl 9y ago
    You're assuming that the coordination costs and timescales of such a Teamsters / UPS agreement match the timescale of such a disruptive innovation arriving and putting UPS out of business. Historically that assumption is inaccurate.
- wpdev_63 9y ago
  Weird to reference people who want to work a job where they can live a modest life a parasite. Can't really add 'value' when there's aren't any jobs that needs to be filled. Alot people are going to be displaced in the following years and we must remember these people are moms, fathers, brothers, sisters, etc. They are not just statistics to be discussed. It would be great if there were more tech news of giving people jobs instead of taking them away.
noetic_techy 9y ago
I'm all for capitalism and efficiency, but there really needs to be a more robust system to relocate and re-educate people who are displaced like this. Whether it be automation or any industry disruption in general. Massive tax breaks if you need to relocate or retrain maybe. Access to free-ish or maybe even subsidized education due to layoff. We need to make the human side of the equation in any job easier to flow from one region of the US to another. I say this, but in the long term we should also be discussing what a "post-work" economy looks like when the machines ultimately take over everything and there is nowhere left to run...
- KyeRussell 9y ago
  These programs need to scale, and you need money to facilitate them. I don't think there are very many huge industries where a large number of workers can flock to and be competent enough in to make money, especially if they lack transferrable skills. The companies dabbling in automation are doing it to cut costs. They—at a minimum—need to recover their R&D spend. The utopian view that automation instantly makes everything cheaper doesn't stand up when you consider the fact that our global productivity keeps rising while wages remain stagnant - it's easy to see where all that saved money goes. I agree with you fully, but it's going to take some radical government policy to raise enough money to fund these sorts of programs. It's very unfortunate.
- jacob019 9y ago
  There will never be a post work economy. If machines drive down the cost of labor then perhaps we will see rising inequality, but lower labor costs would put some machines out of business. From what I've observed though technology has made the world a much better place for all mankind. Some may be hurt on short timescales and we should work to improve that.
mc32 9y ago
Unless they get congress to pass a law to prevent shoppers from shipping via autonomous or drone vehicles all they will do is drive their company into the ground and themselves out of a job. That said, companies do need to look at the morality of automating jobs away. Is there a social contract between companies and the population they serve? In a world where new jobs replaced old, the contract remained intact, in some form, but if now it's outright elimination without adding transformed jobs, there will likely be a breakdown.
aryehof 9y ago
Supposedly automation is innevitable, in order to maximize efficiency and profits. However there is a cost, and long term it will be the ability to provide increasingly huge numbers of people with a job that can provide a reasonable standard of living, along with bread on the table and a roof over their heads. At some point the huge majority "without", will act to regulate out of control change and enterprise which is not to their benefit, or that of their children. Revolution is not just a quaint concept limited to the past.

23 points by poster123 9y ago

Here's an article on the same topic but with no login required. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/24/labor-teamsters-want-to-ban-ups-from-using-drones-driverless-vehicles.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/24/labor-teamsters-want-to-ban-...

blackrock 9y ago

The future of delivery will be robotic. 1. A robot arm using cameras, sensors, and a AI neural network, will unload a truck, and put it on the conveyor belt. 2. Then the same AI robot arm will load a truck. I predict that in the future, a delivery guy will drive his van to your neighborhood, where he will have 5 deliveries to make. He will drive to the center of all the customers. Then, 5 robotic dogs, will take the package to each of the 5 customers. The robotic dog will scan the customer, get a face recognition for authorization, and a confirmation for hand-off. Meanwhile, the delivery guy is sitting in his car twittling his thumbs, waiting for the robotic dogs to come back. Ten minutes later, the robotic dogs come back, they charge back up in their docking stations, and the driver goes off to his next destination. The delivery guy will only be used to deliver extra bulky items, that the robotic dogs cannot yet handle. But future robotic dogs will be able to handle all kinds of bulky packages. In 15 minutes, 5 packages got delivered. At a rate of 3 minutes a package. This is incredible, and it will allow UPS to increase their package delivery throughput. Or, the driver will just drive closer to each of the customers. The robotic dog will deliver the package, while he drives to the next customer on the list. And when all packages are delivered on that route, then he'll come back and pick up each robotic dog, as they sit there waiting. If the unions stop UPS from automating, then they're going to kill themselves. Another company will take over, and their robotic fleet will put UPS out of business. They'll call themselves, the Robo Delivery Express (RDX). And for some other scenarios, drones are going to start aerial delivery. These are more practical for suburban houses with a large front yard. You will need at least a 10x10 sqft area for aerial drone delivery. A mid-sized drone will fly to your house, and hover over the delivery point. You will use your smartphone to authorize the hand-off. The drone gets the authorization to proceed. Cameras using an AI neural network, will scan the area to confirm safety, before initiating the delivery sequence, to make sure all is clear. Then a winch will wind down and gently put the package on the ground. Wind back up, take a last visual scan to make sure all is well, and then fly away. The future is robotic. It is inevitable.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
EpicEng 9y ago
Why in the world would you need a nueral net to unload/load a truck?
- DannyBee 9y ago
  Forklift driving? (I'm just spitballing)
  - EpicEng 9y ago
    OP was talking about a robotic arm to load/unload boxes onto a conveyor belt
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  Yeah! That's obviously a good use case for the Blockchain!
- slededit 9y ago
  Odd sized packages, damaged packages, etc. It would be nice if everything was a standard size but thats not the reality.
cr0sh 9y ago
Why is the delivery guy needed? For the majority of packages and deliveries, it could be completely automated. Anything bulky or non-standard would either be a separate delivery, or require pickup. I think Amazon will be in this space first; heck, it might be most efficient (not energy-wise, of course) to just deliver the packages ad-hoc from the warehouse; imagine if their warehouse robots could leave the warehouse and deliver the package immediately - perhaps as soon as your order is completed! They already have the standard-sized packaging for most things; they'd just need "standard-sized robots" for the delivery to handle the packages. Or - in some far-off future that probably won't occur - imagine if the packaging boxes were the robots...

natosaichek 9y ago

Buggy whip makers tell buggy mfgs "No motors, no batteries, no gasoline" Seriously, do the teamsters not realize that if they cripple UPS's ability to compete that they'll just all be out of a job suddenly when UPS gets destroyed in the market? They need to figure out how humans can actually add value relative to the other options and implement those changes. They need to figure out how to long-term keep humans relevant to the delivery industry. These sorts of short-term hacks by the parasite will just kill the host.

tabtab 9y ago
Re: "Seriously, do the teamsters not realize that if they cripple UPS's ability to compete..." If and when competitors have it and start hurting UPS's business, the teamsters may relax the request. What UPS should do is make sure the contract allows them to still do R&D and small-scale trials. If and when a competitor comes along that is a serious threat to UPS's business, the teamsters will probably relax the production-based automation clauses. It's a compromise I think both sides would agree to. After all, they don't want to kill the hand that feeds them. The only actual thing UPS is sacrificing is being first-to-market with such automation. Just be ready to be 2nd.
- andrewjl 9y ago
  You're assuming that the coordination costs and timescales of such a Teamsters / UPS agreement match the timescale of such a disruptive innovation arriving and putting UPS out of business. Historically that assumption is inaccurate.
wpdev_63 9y ago
Weird to reference people who want to work a job where they can live a modest life a parasite. Can't really add 'value' when there's aren't any jobs that needs to be filled. Alot people are going to be displaced in the following years and we must remember these people are moms, fathers, brothers, sisters, etc. They are not just statistics to be discussed. It would be great if there were more tech news of giving people jobs instead of taking them away.

noetic_techy 9y ago

I'm all for capitalism and efficiency, but there really needs to be a more robust system to relocate and re-educate people who are displaced like this. Whether it be automation or any industry disruption in general. Massive tax breaks if you need to relocate or retrain maybe. Access to free-ish or maybe even subsidized education due to layoff. We need to make the human side of the equation in any job easier to flow from one region of the US to another. I say this, but in the long term we should also be discussing what a "post-work" economy looks like when the machines ultimately take over everything and there is nowhere left to run...

KyeRussell 9y ago
These programs need to scale, and you need money to facilitate them. I don't think there are very many huge industries where a large number of workers can flock to and be competent enough in to make money, especially if they lack transferrable skills. The companies dabbling in automation are doing it to cut costs. They—at a minimum—need to recover their R&D spend. The utopian view that automation instantly makes everything cheaper doesn't stand up when you consider the fact that our global productivity keeps rising while wages remain stagnant - it's easy to see where all that saved money goes. I agree with you fully, but it's going to take some radical government policy to raise enough money to fund these sorts of programs. It's very unfortunate.
jacob019 9y ago
There will never be a post work economy. If machines drive down the cost of labor then perhaps we will see rising inequality, but lower labor costs would put some machines out of business. From what I've observed though technology has made the world a much better place for all mankind. Some may be hurt on short timescales and we should work to improve that.

mc32 9y ago

Unless they get congress to pass a law to prevent shoppers from shipping via autonomous or drone vehicles all they will do is drive their company into the ground and themselves out of a job. That said, companies do need to look at the morality of automating jobs away. Is there a social contract between companies and the population they serve? In a world where new jobs replaced old, the contract remained intact, in some form, but if now it's outright elimination without adding transformed jobs, there will likely be a breakdown.

aryehof 9y ago

Supposedly automation is innevitable, in order to maximize efficiency and profits. However there is a cost, and long term it will be the ability to provide increasingly huge numbers of people with a job that can provide a reasonable standard of living, along with bread on the table and a roof over their heads. At some point the huge majority "without", will act to regulate out of control change and enterprise which is not to their benefit, or that of their children. Revolution is not just a quaint concept limited to the past.