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> People try any justify their behavior, but statistically bike riders regularly risk death. The story about the dangerous jaywalker and bicyclists is a big fa

by emj 9y ago

> People try any justify their behavior, but statistically bike riders regularly risk death. The story about the dangerous jaywalker and bicyclists is a big falsehood if you look at the data. As I said; cyclists have the same behaviour than others have in traffic. The truth is that cyclists live longer, even with all the risky behaviour you think cylists are prone to. The thing that is risky is spending ones life in a car, on so many levels. You refrase things so it seems like cyclists are to blame for being killed by cars when we know that is actually not the case. Just because the party line today is that jaywalkers and cyclists are worse than others doesn't mean there is any actualy evidence for it.

Retric 9y ago
Their are a lot of very biased statistics reported around bike related deaths. Even with a lot of bike infrastructure, and a biking culture Denmark sees 17% of traffic related deaths by cyclists which is vastly more than their share of miles traveled. Their are augments around health benefits. But, these fail to show up in the data as Denmark has ranks #17 in Europe significantly behind even United Kingdom with it's well known obesity problem. https://www.reinisfischer.com/life-expectancy-european-union-2015 https://www.reinisfischer.com/life-expectancy-european-union... PS: You need or look at all related risks combined not just select a few. One risk rarely considered, is heavy exercise in traffic is very bad for the lungs.
- btrettel 9y ago
  > One risk rarely considered, is heavy exercise in traffic is very bad for the lungs. While I agree air pollution is worth considering, "very bad" sounds like hyperbole to me. Definitely not anywhere near smoking. The solutions also are rather simple: change your route to avoid heavy traffic and/or wear an air filter. I've done both before and recommend the latter more, as it seems more effective, does not make breathing harder, and has other safety benefits as well. Also consider the length of one's commute. It's also worth noting that air pollution can easily be worse when driving. In fact, while I can not find the link now, I recall one non-scientific article with some experiments run by academics suggested that net exposure to air pollution was higher when driving in some cases.
  - Retric 9y ago
    Look at the occupational risks for people working as toll collectors. Toll collectors now have positive-pressure HVAC systems due to long term health risks. https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/investigations/toll_plaza/ https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/investigations/toll_... Exercise increases the amount of lung exposure to particulate matter per unit time.
- emj 9y ago
  > You need or look at all related risks You are right that traffic pollution is very bad for the lungs, it's actually the cause of 30%-60% of all deaths related to lung diseases, but this is true for everyone not just cyclists. It's the same number of deaths as for sucides but with an inverse demographics graph of course, at least in Sweden. Those numbers are staggering and the solution to that is not to stop bicyclists navigating normal commute traffic. I would like to say that I do look at the combined risks: There are atleast two longitudinal studies on Dutch and Danish bicyclists that show that using bicycling as an active mode of transport means longer life, basically it's an integration test were you get X% increase in a population by just commuting daily. Here is some commedy that is obvisouly just Norwegians and Swedes being jealous, but it gives you some view on how we think of Danes, and what might affect their lives a bit more than bicycling, as with your link they are very interesting but irrelevant since they do not affect the same population groups. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJBtV_S8c1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJBtV_S8c1c
  - Retric 9y ago
    > this is true for everyone not just cyclists Exercise increases the amount of lung exposure to particulate matter per unit time. Biking is also a slower mode of transit which increases risks, further cars have built in air filters which further reduce risks. So it's really not equivalent. On the upside, bike paths need not be next to traffic and in those cases may reduce exposure.
    - emj 9y ago
      I do not disagree with the dangers of air pollution it's just that if you look at large populations of bicyclists there are no significant elevation of risk compared to other populations in this regard. The solution is not to scare people with baseless arguments.

by emj 9y ago

Retric 9y ago

Their are a lot of very biased statistics reported around bike related deaths. Even with a lot of bike infrastructure, and a biking culture Denmark sees 17% of traffic related deaths by cyclists which is vastly more than their share of miles traveled. Their are augments around health benefits. But, these fail to show up in the data as Denmark has ranks #17 in Europe significantly behind even United Kingdom with it's well known obesity problem. https://www.reinisfischer.com/life-expectancy-european-union-2015 https://www.reinisfischer.com/life-expectancy-european-union... PS: You need or look at all related risks combined not just select a few. One risk rarely considered, is heavy exercise in traffic is very bad for the lungs.

btrettel 9y ago
> One risk rarely considered, is heavy exercise in traffic is very bad for the lungs. While I agree air pollution is worth considering, "very bad" sounds like hyperbole to me. Definitely not anywhere near smoking. The solutions also are rather simple: change your route to avoid heavy traffic and/or wear an air filter. I've done both before and recommend the latter more, as it seems more effective, does not make breathing harder, and has other safety benefits as well. Also consider the length of one's commute. It's also worth noting that air pollution can easily be worse when driving. In fact, while I can not find the link now, I recall one non-scientific article with some experiments run by academics suggested that net exposure to air pollution was higher when driving in some cases.
- Retric 9y ago
  Look at the occupational risks for people working as toll collectors. Toll collectors now have positive-pressure HVAC systems due to long term health risks. https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/investigations/toll_plaza/ https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/investigations/toll_... Exercise increases the amount of lung exposure to particulate matter per unit time.
emj 9y ago
> You need or look at all related risks You are right that traffic pollution is very bad for the lungs, it's actually the cause of 30%-60% of all deaths related to lung diseases, but this is true for everyone not just cyclists. It's the same number of deaths as for sucides but with an inverse demographics graph of course, at least in Sweden. Those numbers are staggering and the solution to that is not to stop bicyclists navigating normal commute traffic. I would like to say that I do look at the combined risks: There are atleast two longitudinal studies on Dutch and Danish bicyclists that show that using bicycling as an active mode of transport means longer life, basically it's an integration test were you get X% increase in a population by just commuting daily. Here is some commedy that is obvisouly just Norwegians and Swedes being jealous, but it gives you some view on how we think of Danes, and what might affect their lives a bit more than bicycling, as with your link they are very interesting but irrelevant since they do not affect the same population groups. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJBtV_S8c1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJBtV_S8c1c
- Retric 9y ago
  > this is true for everyone not just cyclists Exercise increases the amount of lung exposure to particulate matter per unit time. Biking is also a slower mode of transit which increases risks, further cars have built in air filters which further reduce risks. So it's really not equivalent. On the upside, bike paths need not be next to traffic and in those cases may reduce exposure.
  - emj 9y ago
    I do not disagree with the dangers of air pollution it's just that if you look at large populations of bicyclists there are no significant elevation of risk compared to other populations in this regard. The solution is not to scare people with baseless arguments.