7 ms·

Taking Equifax to Small Claims Court

194 points by evashang 9y ago

blacksqr 9y ago
Now try collecting.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  The sheriff will enforce the order wherever Equifax has a presence. See Bank of America: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/06/06/137002727/sweet-justice-a-florida-couple-forecloses-on-bank-of-america https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/06/06/137002727...
- ransom1538 9y ago
  Just walk into their office with a court order and start taking items. I would grab laptops first. Cops will show, then after they see the court order they will help you start bagging things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ctLEGrOmf4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ctLEGrOmf4
  - kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
    This sounds more of a fantasy (I don't deny that what they showed in the video happened but I'd be careful about assuming it generalizes) and I'd not recommend others trying similar stunts.
    - Crontab 9y ago
      https://consumerist.com/2011/03/03/patrick-rodgers-describes-how-he-foreclosed-on-wells-fargo-step-by-step/ https://consumerist.com/2011/03/03/patrick-rodgers-describes...
    - jgowdy 9y ago
      It's not a fantasy. Uncollected judgements can be enforced through direct property seizure if you follow your State's laws. Typically you call law enforcement first and pay them a fee for an escort to seize the property. For businesses, you typically schedule the law enforcement escort for the end of the day so you can seize the cash in the cash register. If I remember correctly, it costs around $75 to have our local county sheriff escort you for property seizure for a judgement.
      - MaxBarraclough 9y ago
        > pay them a fee for an escort to seize the property A fee? Isn't it their job to help enforce the law, being law enforcement officers?
        jgowdy 9y ago
        A judgement against someone else is a civil affair, not a criminal issue. Law enforcement officers enforce criminal law as a matter of course. In a lawsuit when one person owes money to another due to a judgement, that debt is private and you have to bear the costs of the state in enforcing your debt using law enforcement officers. Just like police officers at a concert aren't staffed for free, even though their only purpose is to enforce the laws and/or facilitate traffic. You could argue that enforcing those laws and facilitating that traffic is their job, but those putting on the concert are creating the need for extra law enforcement and want them on hand, so they have to pay.
        MaxBarraclough 9y ago
        Thanks for the explanation. I believe that here in the UK, the police will either decide you deserve an escort and provide you with one, or decide you don't need one and refuse to provide one. I could be mistaken, but I believe bailiffs are essentially expected to take on the risk and confrontation as part of their job, a bit like ticket-inspectors on trains, or the folks that tow away illegally parked cars from privately owned car parks. The police can and do charge for special policing of public events, though - http://www.npcc.police.uk/documents/finance/2015/NPCC%20Guidelines%20on%20Charging%20for%20Police%20Services.pdf http://www.npcc.police.uk/documents/finance/2015/NPCC%20Guid... , http://www.isanuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ISAN-Guidance-Police-Charging-for-Services-at-Events.pdf http://www.isanuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ISAN-Guidan...
  - kenforthewin 9y ago
    Sure, unless you're black.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > Just walk into their office with a court order and start taking items Absolutely do not do this. Go to the police station (edit: court) first, with the court order, and explain your need for armed escort.
    - cptskippy 9y ago
      I thought this was the jurisdiction of the Sheriff who works for the court. * Cops and Sheriffs are completely different.
      - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        You are correct.
  - jayess 9y ago
    In my state you can get a court order to a court officer to seize property. Do not do it yourself. I once had a judgment against someone and I hired the court officer to go to the defendant's house and start towing his cars. I immediately got a call and cash in my hand within an hour.
- joncrane 9y ago
  I'll believe it when the money actually gets deposited into an account he owns.
- gumby 9y ago
  Those corporations are just as subject to these kinds of laws (there are other laws that they are de facto immune from but let's not get into that). The bank of america case elsewhere cited is a famous example. In my case, a few years ago: ADP double-debited our $250K IRS payroll tax deposit from our payroll account (pro tip: never allow third parties to make automatic withdrawals from your main bank account -- use a dedicated account you top up as needed). This would have caused employees' paychecks to bounce except my bank kindly called me first and I was able to move money across. ADP didn't care: their position was they had sent the money to the IRS; I could get a credit from the IRS next quarter and it was none of ADP's business. I finally got through to the head of the nor cal region. Not only was he unsympathetic, he complained, "I don't know why you insist saying we 'took' your money -- we don't have your money, the IRS does. We didn't take anything, we don't even have much of a bank account." So I decided to agree with him: "You're right, I shouldn't say that. The correct term is 'felony grand larceny.' If the money isn't back in my account by the time the fed wire closes I'll take it up with the Santa Clara County Sheriff." (By that time it was about noon, so they only had about an hour to get their act together, having frittered away all morning with call centers and intransigence). Remarkably, the F500 company that had "no possible way" to send me my money was able to get the $250K to me within the hour. They do not want to deal with the local sheriff.
  - froindt 9y ago
    A friend of mine is an attorney. His client had a judgement against a relatively small bank. In his words, the bank was being a "horse's ass" and not paying. He got a judge to sign off on the sheriff assisting in collection. The client was about to be a proud owner of the servers run by the bank. When the sheriff arrived, the bank manager immediately called their attorney to call the client's attorney (my friend) and tell him they're writing a check. Sometimes companies just need a bit of persuasion.
    - erichurkman 9y ago
      A well publicized example happened during the mortgage crisis where a couple foreclosed on a Bank of America branch in Florida after BoA refused to pay court ordered restitution: http://business.time.com/2011/06/06/homeowner-forecloses-on-bank-of-america-yes-you-heard-that-right/ http://business.time.com/2011/06/06/homeowner-forecloses-on-...
CameronBanga 9y ago
One note, this is a big PR piece for the author's business, Legalist. Disclaimer really doesn't come until right at the end.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- gumby 9y ago
  No, just search for "Legalist" and you'll see various mentions in which he mentions his connection. In fact his article is really "how you can easily do this yourself" (though sure, he's happy for you to use his service instead). I wish all corporate white papers were that impartial. I went to small claims myself once and it was about as easy as he describes. You don't need his service.
- mikestew 9y ago
  Disclaimer really doesn't come until right at the end. You mean like every disclaimer since the invention of disclaimers? I'm fine with that, the author might know what he's talking about (though he did mention he's spent less time in court than I have) more than some random person who's experience might not map well to mine.
- coupdejarnac 9y ago
  Considering he admits this is the first time he set foot in court, I have mixed feelings as to whether this is good PR. Would you want someone filing court papers on your behalf who has never been to court before? I wouldn't. I hope his cofounder is an attorney.
  - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
    Reading the blurb on their website, it seems as if their business is providing funding for your lawsuit in exchange for a share of the proceeds if you win, not actually directly providing legal services. They need to be good at predicting which lawsuits will be successful, not good at actually winning lawsuits. > Tell us about your lawsuit, including the court, case number, and who your attorney is. If approved, we cover all your legal costs, including attorney’s fees, deposition costs, and working capital for your business. The only time you repay is if your lawsuit successfully resolves. We’re in this together.
dcole2929 9y ago
Am i the only one kind of shocked at how little he actually got? I realize it's small claims court but seriously that's a pittance compared to the cost of a lifetime of credit monitoring. Say you're 30 years old. You have a reasonable expectations of living another 30-40 years minimum. Being compensated for only 120 months (10 years) of credit monitoring is just ridiculous.
- jayess 9y ago
  There's usually a small claims upper limit, so that's the max you can ask for without going to a regular trial court, where the rules are much more complex.
- brndnmtthws 9y ago
  It's cheap to freeze your credit report.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    It should be free. There is absolutely zero reason why I should have to pay to see my credit report at any time, or decide that I wish to freeze my credit at any time.
    - brndnmtthws 9y ago
      It's free in some states, depending on the circumstances. And yes, it should indeed be free. I wish I could opt out of giving them any of my data entirely, but it's neither practical nor possible.
      - DrScump 9y ago
        In California, a security freeze is free to identity theft victims[0] who have a police report of identity theft. [0] https://oag.ca.gov/idtheft/facts/freeze-your-credit https://oag.ca.gov/idtheft/facts/freeze-your-credit
    - dpwm 9y ago
drefanzor 9y ago
Hi. Read this article a few hours ago, and went down a rabbit hole of agony. I am a victim of the equifax breach apparently. I checked my credit report (on creditkarma.com) for equifax, and realized that there were two hard inquiries which pounded my score down about 40 points. One from Verizon (never have I ever done business with them); one from Paypal Credit (same). I ended up contacting both companies and placing disputes to remove the inquiries from my records. I also placed a dispute for the verizon credit inquiry through equifax, but it wouldn't let me dispute the paypal credit because I couldn't "verify" myself. It asked me for the address of somewhere I lived 10 years ago, and I had a digit off and so it blocked me. Either way, I talked to Verizon and they said someone had applied to get a Verizon account and they were denied. Then they suggested I place a fraud alert (it was free, it's not right that I have to pay $10 to freeze my credit) on my equifax; which I did. By the way, these unauthorized hard inquiries were performed on the 19th, and 22nd (yesterday) of this month, respectably. Either way, thanks for the article, because even though it's been many months since the breach, the effects are still being felt; I'm sure by more than just myself.
- fossuser 9y ago
  The fraud alerts aren't good enough - I'd recommend freezing your credit (and just sucking up the $10) on all three credit bureaus. That'd be Equifax, Experian, and Transunion. You can also freeze your credit at Innovis to get all four. The freeze will require them to contact you before doing anything. The alert doesn't do much in practice (from the people I know who've had it) - it's just ignored.
  - phil21 9y ago
    > I'd recommend freezing your credit (and just sucking up the $10) on all three credit bureaus. This may be the pragmatic approach, but it's also why these companies still exist. At risk of being too blunt - fuck that shit. I will spend thousands before I give them a dime of my money. I have zero business relationship with them, and I consider such crap absolute extortion. The world is a better place without credit rating agencies. Heck, I remember a point in time where it was questionable whether these companies were even legal to begin with. So far have we fallen. These are things people should be getting violent about.
baseethrowaway 9y ago
Very relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/7h9tn2/i_sued_equifax_and_won_they_filed_an_appeal_whats/ https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/7h9tn2/i_sued_... Might be an insight into what happens when Equifax appeals.
no29 9y ago
just a wild guess.. expect an appeal and a less than friendly attorney to be present at the next hearing. i'd also worry about removal to federal court and consolidation - now that a judge has actually raised a federal question about the fcra
ZushiZack 9y ago
No, the author didn't win $8000, because the judgement is suspended for 30 days, where Equifax can appeal (which they most certainly will, especially since the judgement was from a Pro Tem). There will likely be a new case in superior court, in front of an actual judge, who will realize the plaintiff could not prove any actual damage. Also, taking a photo of yourself during a court hearing to post on your blog promoting your company is probably not a good idea considering photography is banned and it can get you charged for contempt, even after the fact. Update: Author has taken the photo down, although it would be nice for him to provide an update to his readers saying as with all small claims cases, the judgement is suspended for 30 days and as such, he didn't actually win anything yet.
- tourist2d 9y ago
  Yep, It's almost certain that they'll appeal the case. There have been plenty of similar posts asking for advice on r/legaladvice on reddit. The general consensus is unless you're willing to spend the next few years in court, don't try to sue Equifax. https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/7lz38l/tried_to_sue_equifax_for_data_breaches_just_got_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/7lz38l/tried_t...
  - joncrane 9y ago
    That OP might actually be astroturfing, though. I mean, it's definitely costing Equifax more than $435 to "fly a team of corporate lawyers" to some city. The optimal strategy would be to show up for that hearing. Win, or draw, the whole thing is costing Equifax more than it's worth. Which is what makes me suspect that it's made up. Equifax is evil, not dumb.
    - g051051 9y ago
      It's not made up...I couldn't believe he won either, but I looked up the judgement at the court web site. Sure enough, it's there. Based on his story and reading the judgement, I'd say he got incredibly lucky with a poorly prepared judge and defense lawyer. It'll be surprising if this holds up.

194 points by evashang 9y ago

blacksqr 9y ago

Now try collecting.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
The sheriff will enforce the order wherever Equifax has a presence. See Bank of America: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/06/06/137002727/sweet-justice-a-florida-couple-forecloses-on-bank-of-america https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/06/06/137002727...
ransom1538 9y ago
Just walk into their office with a court order and start taking items. I would grab laptops first. Cops will show, then after they see the court order they will help you start bagging things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ctLEGrOmf4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ctLEGrOmf4
- kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
  This sounds more of a fantasy (I don't deny that what they showed in the video happened but I'd be careful about assuming it generalizes) and I'd not recommend others trying similar stunts.
  - Crontab 9y ago
    https://consumerist.com/2011/03/03/patrick-rodgers-describes-how-he-foreclosed-on-wells-fargo-step-by-step/ https://consumerist.com/2011/03/03/patrick-rodgers-describes...
  - jgowdy 9y ago
    It's not a fantasy. Uncollected judgements can be enforced through direct property seizure if you follow your State's laws. Typically you call law enforcement first and pay them a fee for an escort to seize the property. For businesses, you typically schedule the law enforcement escort for the end of the day so you can seize the cash in the cash register. If I remember correctly, it costs around $75 to have our local county sheriff escort you for property seizure for a judgement.
    - MaxBarraclough 9y ago
      > pay them a fee for an escort to seize the property A fee? Isn't it their job to help enforce the law, being law enforcement officers?
      - jgowdy 9y ago
        A judgement against someone else is a civil affair, not a criminal issue. Law enforcement officers enforce criminal law as a matter of course. In a lawsuit when one person owes money to another due to a judgement, that debt is private and you have to bear the costs of the state in enforcing your debt using law enforcement officers. Just like police officers at a concert aren't staffed for free, even though their only purpose is to enforce the laws and/or facilitate traffic. You could argue that enforcing those laws and facilitating that traffic is their job, but those putting on the concert are creating the need for extra law enforcement and want them on hand, so they have to pay.
        MaxBarraclough 9y ago
        Thanks for the explanation. I believe that here in the UK, the police will either decide you deserve an escort and provide you with one, or decide you don't need one and refuse to provide one. I could be mistaken, but I believe bailiffs are essentially expected to take on the risk and confrontation as part of their job, a bit like ticket-inspectors on trains, or the folks that tow away illegally parked cars from privately owned car parks. The police can and do charge for special policing of public events, though - http://www.npcc.police.uk/documents/finance/2015/NPCC%20Guidelines%20on%20Charging%20for%20Police%20Services.pdf http://www.npcc.police.uk/documents/finance/2015/NPCC%20Guid... , http://www.isanuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ISAN-Guidance-Police-Charging-for-Services-at-Events.pdf http://www.isanuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ISAN-Guidan...
- kenforthewin 9y ago
  Sure, unless you're black.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > Just walk into their office with a court order and start taking items Absolutely do not do this. Go to the police station (edit: court) first, with the court order, and explain your need for armed escort.
  - cptskippy 9y ago
    I thought this was the jurisdiction of the Sheriff who works for the court. * Cops and Sheriffs are completely different.
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      You are correct.
- jayess 9y ago
  In my state you can get a court order to a court officer to seize property. Do not do it yourself. I once had a judgment against someone and I hired the court officer to go to the defendant's house and start towing his cars. I immediately got a call and cash in my hand within an hour.
joncrane 9y ago
I'll believe it when the money actually gets deposited into an account he owns.
gumby 9y ago
Those corporations are just as subject to these kinds of laws (there are other laws that they are de facto immune from but let's not get into that). The bank of america case elsewhere cited is a famous example. In my case, a few years ago: ADP double-debited our $250K IRS payroll tax deposit from our payroll account (pro tip: never allow third parties to make automatic withdrawals from your main bank account -- use a dedicated account you top up as needed). This would have caused employees' paychecks to bounce except my bank kindly called me first and I was able to move money across. ADP didn't care: their position was they had sent the money to the IRS; I could get a credit from the IRS next quarter and it was none of ADP's business. I finally got through to the head of the nor cal region. Not only was he unsympathetic, he complained, "I don't know why you insist saying we 'took' your money -- we don't have your money, the IRS does. We didn't take anything, we don't even have much of a bank account." So I decided to agree with him: "You're right, I shouldn't say that. The correct term is 'felony grand larceny.' If the money isn't back in my account by the time the fed wire closes I'll take it up with the Santa Clara County Sheriff." (By that time it was about noon, so they only had about an hour to get their act together, having frittered away all morning with call centers and intransigence). Remarkably, the F500 company that had "no possible way" to send me my money was able to get the $250K to me within the hour. They do not want to deal with the local sheriff.
- froindt 9y ago
  A friend of mine is an attorney. His client had a judgement against a relatively small bank. In his words, the bank was being a "horse's ass" and not paying. He got a judge to sign off on the sheriff assisting in collection. The client was about to be a proud owner of the servers run by the bank. When the sheriff arrived, the bank manager immediately called their attorney to call the client's attorney (my friend) and tell him they're writing a check. Sometimes companies just need a bit of persuasion.
  - erichurkman 9y ago
    A well publicized example happened during the mortgage crisis where a couple foreclosed on a Bank of America branch in Florida after BoA refused to pay court ordered restitution: http://business.time.com/2011/06/06/homeowner-forecloses-on-bank-of-america-yes-you-heard-that-right/ http://business.time.com/2011/06/06/homeowner-forecloses-on-...

CameronBanga 9y ago

One note, this is a big PR piece for the author's business, Legalist. Disclaimer really doesn't come until right at the end.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
gumby 9y ago
No, just search for "Legalist" and you'll see various mentions in which he mentions his connection. In fact his article is really "how you can easily do this yourself" (though sure, he's happy for you to use his service instead). I wish all corporate white papers were that impartial. I went to small claims myself once and it was about as easy as he describes. You don't need his service.
mikestew 9y ago
Disclaimer really doesn't come until right at the end. You mean like every disclaimer since the invention of disclaimers? I'm fine with that, the author might know what he's talking about (though he did mention he's spent less time in court than I have) more than some random person who's experience might not map well to mine.
coupdejarnac 9y ago
Considering he admits this is the first time he set foot in court, I have mixed feelings as to whether this is good PR. Would you want someone filing court papers on your behalf who has never been to court before? I wouldn't. I hope his cofounder is an attorney.
- TheCoelacanth 9y ago
  Reading the blurb on their website, it seems as if their business is providing funding for your lawsuit in exchange for a share of the proceeds if you win, not actually directly providing legal services. They need to be good at predicting which lawsuits will be successful, not good at actually winning lawsuits. > Tell us about your lawsuit, including the court, case number, and who your attorney is. If approved, we cover all your legal costs, including attorney’s fees, deposition costs, and working capital for your business. The only time you repay is if your lawsuit successfully resolves. We’re in this together.

dcole2929 9y ago

Am i the only one kind of shocked at how little he actually got? I realize it's small claims court but seriously that's a pittance compared to the cost of a lifetime of credit monitoring. Say you're 30 years old. You have a reasonable expectations of living another 30-40 years minimum. Being compensated for only 120 months (10 years) of credit monitoring is just ridiculous.

jayess 9y ago
There's usually a small claims upper limit, so that's the max you can ask for without going to a regular trial court, where the rules are much more complex.
brndnmtthws 9y ago
It's cheap to freeze your credit report.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  It should be free. There is absolutely zero reason why I should have to pay to see my credit report at any time, or decide that I wish to freeze my credit at any time.
  - brndnmtthws 9y ago
    It's free in some states, depending on the circumstances. And yes, it should indeed be free. I wish I could opt out of giving them any of my data entirely, but it's neither practical nor possible.
    - DrScump 9y ago
      In California, a security freeze is free to identity theft victims[0] who have a police report of identity theft. [0] https://oag.ca.gov/idtheft/facts/freeze-your-credit https://oag.ca.gov/idtheft/facts/freeze-your-credit
  - dpwm 9y ago

drefanzor 9y ago

Hi. Read this article a few hours ago, and went down a rabbit hole of agony. I am a victim of the equifax breach apparently. I checked my credit report (on creditkarma.com) for equifax, and realized that there were two hard inquiries which pounded my score down about 40 points. One from Verizon (never have I ever done business with them); one from Paypal Credit (same). I ended up contacting both companies and placing disputes to remove the inquiries from my records. I also placed a dispute for the verizon credit inquiry through equifax, but it wouldn't let me dispute the paypal credit because I couldn't "verify" myself. It asked me for the address of somewhere I lived 10 years ago, and I had a digit off and so it blocked me. Either way, I talked to Verizon and they said someone had applied to get a Verizon account and they were denied. Then they suggested I place a fraud alert (it was free, it's not right that I have to pay $10 to freeze my credit) on my equifax; which I did. By the way, these unauthorized hard inquiries were performed on the 19th, and 22nd (yesterday) of this month, respectably. Either way, thanks for the article, because even though it's been many months since the breach, the effects are still being felt; I'm sure by more than just myself.

fossuser 9y ago
The fraud alerts aren't good enough - I'd recommend freezing your credit (and just sucking up the $10) on all three credit bureaus. That'd be Equifax, Experian, and Transunion. You can also freeze your credit at Innovis to get all four. The freeze will require them to contact you before doing anything. The alert doesn't do much in practice (from the people I know who've had it) - it's just ignored.
- phil21 9y ago
  > I'd recommend freezing your credit (and just sucking up the $10) on all three credit bureaus. This may be the pragmatic approach, but it's also why these companies still exist. At risk of being too blunt - fuck that shit. I will spend thousands before I give them a dime of my money. I have zero business relationship with them, and I consider such crap absolute extortion. The world is a better place without credit rating agencies. Heck, I remember a point in time where it was questionable whether these companies were even legal to begin with. So far have we fallen. These are things people should be getting violent about.

baseethrowaway 9y ago

Very relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/7h9tn2/i_sued_equifax_and_won_they_filed_an_appeal_whats/ https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/7h9tn2/i_sued_... Might be an insight into what happens when Equifax appeals.

no29 9y ago

just a wild guess.. expect an appeal and a less than friendly attorney to be present at the next hearing. i'd also worry about removal to federal court and consolidation - now that a judge has actually raised a federal question about the fcra

ZushiZack 9y ago

No, the author didn't win $8000, because the judgement is suspended for 30 days, where Equifax can appeal (which they most certainly will, especially since the judgement was from a Pro Tem). There will likely be a new case in superior court, in front of an actual judge, who will realize the plaintiff could not prove any actual damage. Also, taking a photo of yourself during a court hearing to post on your blog promoting your company is probably not a good idea considering photography is banned and it can get you charged for contempt, even after the fact. Update: Author has taken the photo down, although it would be nice for him to provide an update to his readers saying as with all small claims cases, the judgement is suspended for 30 days and as such, he didn't actually win anything yet.

tourist2d 9y ago
Yep, It's almost certain that they'll appeal the case. There have been plenty of similar posts asking for advice on r/legaladvice on reddit. The general consensus is unless you're willing to spend the next few years in court, don't try to sue Equifax. https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/7lz38l/tried_to_sue_equifax_for_data_breaches_just_got_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/7lz38l/tried_t...
- joncrane 9y ago
  That OP might actually be astroturfing, though. I mean, it's definitely costing Equifax more than $435 to "fly a team of corporate lawyers" to some city. The optimal strategy would be to show up for that hearing. Win, or draw, the whole thing is costing Equifax more than it's worth. Which is what makes me suspect that it's made up. Equifax is evil, not dumb.
  - g051051 9y ago
    It's not made up...I couldn't believe he won either, but I looked up the judgement at the court web site. Sure enough, it's there. Based on his story and reading the judgement, I'd say he got incredibly lucky with a poorly prepared judge and defense lawyer. It'll be surprising if this holds up.