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Nobody is arguing that. They're arguing that the states are giving away money. Not that they aren't providing services. And nobody thinks Amazon moving to the

Nobody is arguing that. They're arguing that the states are giving away money. Not that they aren't providing services. And nobody thinks Amazon moving to their town will create a silicon valley 2. Plenty of cities host huge employers. They don't become magnets for that industry. They just get fat tax breaks. Many cities actually get worse with these giant companies throwing their weight around. Under Armor is single handedly reshaping southeast Baltimore, which of course is not only upsetting neighborhoods but pushing people out, not to mention small businesses replaced by national chains. Finally Amazon has hundreds of billions. They do not need a handout from a poor city.

refurb 9y ago
They're arguing that the states are giving away money. What money are they giving away? If Amazon never comes, then there is no Amazon taxes and thus no tax breaks. Right now those towns are starting out at zero. If they are smart, they structure the incentives to make sure they are net positive. If they screw that up, well that's on them.
- aeorgnoieang 9y ago
  Why aren't cities and towns already doing this then? Every new business or new resident, of any size or wealth or income, is a potential new "net positive" contributor to their tax base.
  - PKop 9y ago
    What on Earth makes you think they aren't doing this? There's no single corp announcing a possible move to anywhere as big as Amazon to illustrate the incentive to compete, at almost any price. In other words, construct a hypothetical move for a hypothetical corporation to some example town, and I'm sure that town could come up with an incentive package that would be beneficial to its citizens in place of having the company not move there. Do you disagree?
    - aeorgnoieang 9y ago
      I am almost perfectly certain that they're not doing this because I was referring to all of the organizations, and individuals, that are not as big as Amazon. I'm claiming your argument is suspicious because it seems to only really apply to organizations of Amazon's size. Maybe you disagree, but it sure doesn't seem like any cities or towns are interested in luring an Amazons worth of businesses and tax-payers that aren't a single organization. The argument seems pretty agnostic; why is no one else?
      - nugget 9y ago
        New York State offers to waive all state income taxes for something like 10 years if you move there and start a new business in one of their special economic zones. There are more of these programs out there than people realize. https://esd.ny.gov/startup-ny-program https://esd.ny.gov/startup-ny-program
        aeorgnoieang 9y ago
        That's a good counter-example, but still pretty far from 'accept any net-positive benefit' (however close to zero). Moreover, there only seem to be three such zones in the entire state: parts of upper Manhattan, parts of the south of the Bronx, and some parts of Yonkers.
- peterwwillis 9y ago
  > If they screw that up, well that's on them. Giving the incentives is the screw up. Not how they implement it. Even though they often implement stupid policies and ignore the things they actually need to pay for. In many cases, states and local governments lose hundreds of millions, if not billions, trying to attract investment which doesn't pay off. Kansas City lost 331 million in tax revenue due to horrible policies that incentivized moving jobs a mile across a river to a different state. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/05/04/476799218/episode-699-why-did-the-job-cross-the-road https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/05/04/476799218/epis... http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article183014956.html http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article183014956.html (video embedded, pls 2 watch) Kentucky gave tens of millions in tax breaks to build a Noah's Ark theme park. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/07/us/noahs-ark-kentucky/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/07/us/noahs-ark-kentucky/index.ht... New Jersey wants to give Amazon $7 Billion in tax breaks. It still has not invested money in fixing its broken public transit system. https://www.wsj.com/articles/newark-offers-7-billion-in-incentives-to-lure-amazon-1508191648 https://www.wsj.com/articles/newark-offers-7-billion-in-ince...
walshemj 9y ago
Actually they do motor plants support a vast number of JIT subcontractors - only Tesla seems to have gone back to vertical integration.

refurb 9y ago

They're arguing that the states are giving away money. What money are they giving away? If Amazon never comes, then there is no Amazon taxes and thus no tax breaks. Right now those towns are starting out at zero. If they are smart, they structure the incentives to make sure they are net positive. If they screw that up, well that's on them.

aeorgnoieang 9y ago
Why aren't cities and towns already doing this then? Every new business or new resident, of any size or wealth or income, is a potential new "net positive" contributor to their tax base.
- PKop 9y ago
  What on Earth makes you think they aren't doing this? There's no single corp announcing a possible move to anywhere as big as Amazon to illustrate the incentive to compete, at almost any price. In other words, construct a hypothetical move for a hypothetical corporation to some example town, and I'm sure that town could come up with an incentive package that would be beneficial to its citizens in place of having the company not move there. Do you disagree?
  - aeorgnoieang 9y ago
    I am almost perfectly certain that they're not doing this because I was referring to all of the organizations, and individuals, that are not as big as Amazon. I'm claiming your argument is suspicious because it seems to only really apply to organizations of Amazon's size. Maybe you disagree, but it sure doesn't seem like any cities or towns are interested in luring an Amazons worth of businesses and tax-payers that aren't a single organization. The argument seems pretty agnostic; why is no one else?
    - nugget 9y ago
      New York State offers to waive all state income taxes for something like 10 years if you move there and start a new business in one of their special economic zones. There are more of these programs out there than people realize. https://esd.ny.gov/startup-ny-program https://esd.ny.gov/startup-ny-program
      - aeorgnoieang 9y ago
        That's a good counter-example, but still pretty far from 'accept any net-positive benefit' (however close to zero). Moreover, there only seem to be three such zones in the entire state: parts of upper Manhattan, parts of the south of the Bronx, and some parts of Yonkers.
peterwwillis 9y ago
> If they screw that up, well that's on them. Giving the incentives is the screw up. Not how they implement it. Even though they often implement stupid policies and ignore the things they actually need to pay for. In many cases, states and local governments lose hundreds of millions, if not billions, trying to attract investment which doesn't pay off. Kansas City lost 331 million in tax revenue due to horrible policies that incentivized moving jobs a mile across a river to a different state. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/05/04/476799218/episode-699-why-did-the-job-cross-the-road https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/05/04/476799218/epis... http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article183014956.html http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article183014956.html (video embedded, pls 2 watch) Kentucky gave tens of millions in tax breaks to build a Noah's Ark theme park. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/07/us/noahs-ark-kentucky/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/07/us/noahs-ark-kentucky/index.ht... New Jersey wants to give Amazon $7 Billion in tax breaks. It still has not invested money in fixing its broken public transit system. https://www.wsj.com/articles/newark-offers-7-billion-in-incentives-to-lure-amazon-1508191648 https://www.wsj.com/articles/newark-offers-7-billion-in-ince...

walshemj 9y ago

Actually they do motor plants support a vast number of JIT subcontractors - only Tesla seems to have gone back to vertical integration.