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Bitcoin is functioning exactly as designed. Satoshi planned for this; it's in the whitepaper. Most people just don't like the idea of Satoshi's endgame vision.

Bitcoin is functioning exactly as designed. Satoshi planned for this; it's in the whitepaper. Most people just don't like the idea of Satoshi's endgame vision. But it's working as intended.

tedunangst 9y ago
Can you highlight the part of the white paper you're referring to? https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  "The incentive can also be funded with transaction fees. If the output value of a transaction is less than its input value, the difference is a transaction fee that is added to the incentive value of the block containing the transaction. Once a predetermined number of coins have entered circulation, the incentive can transition entirely to transaction fees and be completely inflation free." It's the design, folks. Read the paper and think about what it's saying. Satoshi was acutely aware that 1MB blocks could only encode a couple thousand transactions. So what do you think "the incentive can transition entirely to transaction fees" means in practice? Not a <$100 fee, that's for sure.
  - criddell 9y ago
    Of legacy electronics payment systems and their need to be mediator, Satoshi says this: > The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions If enabling small casual transactions was one of the goals, then they've failed terribly on that point.
    - sillysaurus3 9y ago
      BS. Bitcoin had small casual transactions up until recently. It was one of its main selling points. Again, people don't like Satoshi's endgame vision. This is working as designed. Bitcoin was designed to evolve into this. It was not intended to stay static; it's in the whitepaper. Break out of the groupthink. It's worth realizing when everyone around you is being irrational.
      - criddell 9y ago
        Satoshi expected Bitcoin to scale to Visa-levels of 100 million transactions per day. He expected the cost of a transaction to be less than Visa forever, not just while nobody was using it.
        sillysaurus3 9y ago
        Did Satoshi say this directly? Try to find a quote and paste it. It's a useful exercise, because it forces you to constrain your thinking. Either from the whitepaper or from http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/ http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/ I don't think Satoshi said this, but I'll be happy to admit to being wrong. In fact, here is Satoshi's clear and complete vision from the very beginning: http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/cryptography/16/ http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/cryptography/16/ Total circulation will be 21,000,000 coins. It'll be distributed to network nodes when they make blocks, with the amount cut in half every 4 years. first 4 years: 10,500,000 coins next 4 years: 5,250,000 coins next 4 years: 2,625,000 coins next 4 years: 1,312,500 coins etc... When that runs out, the system can support transaction fees if needed. It's based on open market competition, and there will probably always be nodes willing to process transactions for free. Satoshi Nakamoto
        criddell 9y ago
        http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/cryptography/2/ http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/cryptography/2/ You can also find copies of an email Satoshi wrote to Mike Hearn where he said essentially the same thing.
deleted 9y ago
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aaron-santos 9y ago
> A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution. Is your argument that Stripe is acting as a financial institution or that their exit as a middle man is inches us closer to a peer-to-peer system?

Bitcoin is functioning exactly as designed. Satoshi planned for this; it's in the whitepaper. Most people just don't like the idea of Satoshi's endgame vision. But it's working as intended.

tedunangst 9y ago

Can you highlight the part of the white paper you're referring to? https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

sillysaurus3 9y ago
"The incentive can also be funded with transaction fees. If the output value of a transaction is less than its input value, the difference is a transaction fee that is added to the incentive value of the block containing the transaction. Once a predetermined number of coins have entered circulation, the incentive can transition entirely to transaction fees and be completely inflation free." It's the design, folks. Read the paper and think about what it's saying. Satoshi was acutely aware that 1MB blocks could only encode a couple thousand transactions. So what do you think "the incentive can transition entirely to transaction fees" means in practice? Not a <$100 fee, that's for sure.
- criddell 9y ago
  Of legacy electronics payment systems and their need to be mediator, Satoshi says this: > The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions If enabling small casual transactions was one of the goals, then they've failed terribly on that point.
  - sillysaurus3 9y ago
    BS. Bitcoin had small casual transactions up until recently. It was one of its main selling points. Again, people don't like Satoshi's endgame vision. This is working as designed. Bitcoin was designed to evolve into this. It was not intended to stay static; it's in the whitepaper. Break out of the groupthink. It's worth realizing when everyone around you is being irrational.
    - criddell 9y ago
      Satoshi expected Bitcoin to scale to Visa-levels of 100 million transactions per day. He expected the cost of a transaction to be less than Visa forever, not just while nobody was using it.
      - sillysaurus3 9y ago
        Did Satoshi say this directly? Try to find a quote and paste it. It's a useful exercise, because it forces you to constrain your thinking. Either from the whitepaper or from http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/ http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/ I don't think Satoshi said this, but I'll be happy to admit to being wrong. In fact, here is Satoshi's clear and complete vision from the very beginning: http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/cryptography/16/ http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/cryptography/16/ Total circulation will be 21,000,000 coins. It'll be distributed to network nodes when they make blocks, with the amount cut in half every 4 years. first 4 years: 10,500,000 coins next 4 years: 5,250,000 coins next 4 years: 2,625,000 coins next 4 years: 1,312,500 coins etc... When that runs out, the system can support transaction fees if needed. It's based on open market competition, and there will probably always be nodes willing to process transactions for free. Satoshi Nakamoto
        criddell 9y ago
        http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/cryptography/2/ http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/cryptography/2/ You can also find copies of an email Satoshi wrote to Mike Hearn where he said essentially the same thing.

deleted 9y ago

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aaron-santos 9y ago

> A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution. Is your argument that Stripe is acting as a financial institution or that their exit as a middle man is inches us closer to a peer-to-peer system?