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> Given that bitcoin isn't a medium of transaction anymore and a store of value this makes a lot of sense. Can someone bother explaining what this actually mea

> Given that bitcoin isn't a medium of transaction anymore and a store of value this makes a lot of sense. Can someone bother explaining what this actually means? 3 weeks ago everyone is hype about how Bitcoin is going to be the future of currency and now that it's tanking and vendors are dropping it like a hot potato, its no longer a transactional currency and it's now a "store of value".

fastball 9y ago
Bitcoin is currently the crypto equivalent of gold. It's not reasonable to use it to buy a coffee. However, Bitcoin is trying (but many would argue, failing) to upgrade the network with something that will allow cheaper/faster transactions and make it a reasonable currency again. However, (imo) in-fighting has seriously hampered this. That being the reality, many people hope that Bitcoin will remain a store of value into the future, even if most people are using some other crypto for actual day-to-day transactions. There are "old-school" cryptos with lower transaction fees (Litecoin, Bitcoin Cash). There is not much reason to use them as an actual currency except for the fact that they have more inertia than most other projects (and therefore more things have been built around them). In particular, most places that had some sort of Bitcoin integration can very easily switch to Bitcoin Cash for much lower tx fees. There are many cryptos that are trying to be currency in a permanently scalable way (IOTA, Ripple, Stellar) Other cryptos are trying to be cash, i.e. anonymous (Dash, Monero, ZCash). Most others are either A. intended to be more platform than currency (Ethereum, NEO, EOS, Tron) or B. too small to mention.
- gizmo385 9y ago
  > Bitcoin is currently the crypto equivalent of gold. Why is this a good thing? Nobody uses gold as a store of value anymore because it just wasn't viable going forward. Why would Bitcoin be any different?
  - mamon 9y ago
    Most of the central banks have gold reserves as a store of value, some of them expanding them (most notably China and Russia). For individuals it is less popular, but still I wouldn't say "nobody uses gold".
    - gizmo385 9y ago
      But aren't those gold reserves a tiny fraction of the actual cash circulating in the economy? What use does Bitcoin serve in this aspect? And I don't think that Bitcoin and Gold are really comparable. In the event of some national/international crisis, the gold is still going to be there. I don't think you can reasonably make the same guarantee about something like Bitcoin.
- mamon 9y ago
  No, Bitcoin is the crypto equivalent of Monopoly money: it is unreasonable to use it for anything but little fun. For real world use cases there are better solutions, including other cryptocurrencies.
  - fastball 9y ago
    Gold isn't reasonable for the average Joe to use for anything either.
  - stevenwoo 9y ago
    There was a recent bit on NPR (Planet Money?) where they interviewed young people in Seoul - they had so little faith in their ability to earn a living and save money by working a regular job in Korea they were putting all their savings into Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies and hoping to hit the jackpot. It was alarming.
    - hyprCoin 9y ago
      http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/732768.html http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/73... > Low-income South Koreans are finding it harder and harder to rise to the middle or high-income classes through their own efforts and abilities, a recent study shows. Just two out of every ten households saw their economic status rise through increased income and assets over a three-year period, the findings indicate. Crypto provides an alternative economy where class mobility isn't broken in the same ways. Youth will continue to flock to it until the local economies sort themselves out.
      - stevenwoo 9y ago
        I wonder if young folks in the same situation in America are doing the same thing.
    - selimthegrim 9y ago
      https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-01-23/why-some-young-south-koreans-are-putting-their-hopes-cryptocurrencies https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-01-23/why-some-young-south-...
- stctgion 9y ago
  It's not gold. Gold has a long history of being a stable store of value. I could buy gold now and sit back and not worry that the price was about to fall through the floor. Owning bitcoin is not the same. At any moment it could tank. If all the investors suddenly got interested in Pokémon cards they would be just as useful as a store of value.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > I could buy gold now and sit back and not worry that the price was about to fall through the floor. Lots of people have believed that in the past. Sometimes they've been right, sometimes not. The future supply of commodities doesn't always follow expectations.
fokinsean 9y ago
Currently Bitcoin transactions are very expensive (~$10-$20) and painfully slow taking hours to propagate. There are many more cryptocurrencies that are faster/cheaper such as Litecoin and even ETH (even though it's no _really_ supposed to act like a currency). Also there are some really cool platforms coming out such as REQ and Stellar which will arguably serve as better mediums of payment. The hype in crypto has cooled off a bit from last month's mania, however there is still a lot of innovation going on. This is why you see Bitcoin "regressing" into a store of value.
- igorgue 9y ago
  It's 5 bucks not ~10-20. Stop using "Currently" if you don't know what you're talking about.
ChrisClark 9y ago
3 weeks ago Bitcoin was just as horrible to use for payments as it is now. Just no one investing in it knew that, at all. I'm sure it will be around for a long time as an investment, but they refuse to innovate.
john_moscow 9y ago
To me it sounds like the kool-aid for those who bought it at $15-19K and now realize that the only way to see that money back is if another wave of irrational buyers creates enough demand to pump the price up. The pro-bitcoin people endlessly repeat analogies with gold, except gold price has not been growing since its peak in 2012 and it's only used to store value by governments due mostly due to conservativeness (know a politician willing to kill his career by switching the country's gold reserves to any other security?). Aside from that, I don't see anyone else using gold instead of interest-generating assets (stocks, bonds, real estate).

fastball 9y ago

Bitcoin is currently the crypto equivalent of gold. It's not reasonable to use it to buy a coffee. However, Bitcoin is trying (but many would argue, failing) to upgrade the network with something that will allow cheaper/faster transactions and make it a reasonable currency again. However, (imo) in-fighting has seriously hampered this. That being the reality, many people hope that Bitcoin will remain a store of value into the future, even if most people are using some other crypto for actual day-to-day transactions. There are "old-school" cryptos with lower transaction fees (Litecoin, Bitcoin Cash). There is not much reason to use them as an actual currency except for the fact that they have more inertia than most other projects (and therefore more things have been built around them). In particular, most places that had some sort of Bitcoin integration can very easily switch to Bitcoin Cash for much lower tx fees. There are many cryptos that are trying to be currency in a permanently scalable way (IOTA, Ripple, Stellar) Other cryptos are trying to be cash, i.e. anonymous (Dash, Monero, ZCash). Most others are either A. intended to be more platform than currency (Ethereum, NEO, EOS, Tron) or B. too small to mention.

gizmo385 9y ago
> Bitcoin is currently the crypto equivalent of gold. Why is this a good thing? Nobody uses gold as a store of value anymore because it just wasn't viable going forward. Why would Bitcoin be any different?
- mamon 9y ago
  Most of the central banks have gold reserves as a store of value, some of them expanding them (most notably China and Russia). For individuals it is less popular, but still I wouldn't say "nobody uses gold".
  - gizmo385 9y ago
    But aren't those gold reserves a tiny fraction of the actual cash circulating in the economy? What use does Bitcoin serve in this aspect? And I don't think that Bitcoin and Gold are really comparable. In the event of some national/international crisis, the gold is still going to be there. I don't think you can reasonably make the same guarantee about something like Bitcoin.
mamon 9y ago
No, Bitcoin is the crypto equivalent of Monopoly money: it is unreasonable to use it for anything but little fun. For real world use cases there are better solutions, including other cryptocurrencies.
- fastball 9y ago
  Gold isn't reasonable for the average Joe to use for anything either.
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  There was a recent bit on NPR (Planet Money?) where they interviewed young people in Seoul - they had so little faith in their ability to earn a living and save money by working a regular job in Korea they were putting all their savings into Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies and hoping to hit the jackpot. It was alarming.
  - hyprCoin 9y ago
    http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/732768.html http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/73... > Low-income South Koreans are finding it harder and harder to rise to the middle or high-income classes through their own efforts and abilities, a recent study shows. Just two out of every ten households saw their economic status rise through increased income and assets over a three-year period, the findings indicate. Crypto provides an alternative economy where class mobility isn't broken in the same ways. Youth will continue to flock to it until the local economies sort themselves out.
    - stevenwoo 9y ago
      I wonder if young folks in the same situation in America are doing the same thing.
  - selimthegrim 9y ago
    https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-01-23/why-some-young-south-koreans-are-putting-their-hopes-cryptocurrencies https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-01-23/why-some-young-south-...
stctgion 9y ago
It's not gold. Gold has a long history of being a stable store of value. I could buy gold now and sit back and not worry that the price was about to fall through the floor. Owning bitcoin is not the same. At any moment it could tank. If all the investors suddenly got interested in Pokémon cards they would be just as useful as a store of value.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > I could buy gold now and sit back and not worry that the price was about to fall through the floor. Lots of people have believed that in the past. Sometimes they've been right, sometimes not. The future supply of commodities doesn't always follow expectations.

fokinsean 9y ago

Currently Bitcoin transactions are very expensive (~$10-$20) and painfully slow taking hours to propagate. There are many more cryptocurrencies that are faster/cheaper such as Litecoin and even ETH (even though it's no _really_ supposed to act like a currency). Also there are some really cool platforms coming out such as REQ and Stellar which will arguably serve as better mediums of payment. The hype in crypto has cooled off a bit from last month's mania, however there is still a lot of innovation going on. This is why you see Bitcoin "regressing" into a store of value.

igorgue 9y ago
It's 5 bucks not ~10-20. Stop using "Currently" if you don't know what you're talking about.

ChrisClark 9y ago

3 weeks ago Bitcoin was just as horrible to use for payments as it is now. Just no one investing in it knew that, at all. I'm sure it will be around for a long time as an investment, but they refuse to innovate.

john_moscow 9y ago

To me it sounds like the kool-aid for those who bought it at $15-19K and now realize that the only way to see that money back is if another wave of irrational buyers creates enough demand to pump the price up. The pro-bitcoin people endlessly repeat analogies with gold, except gold price has not been growing since its peak in 2012 and it's only used to store value by governments due mostly due to conservativeness (know a politician willing to kill his career by switching the country's gold reserves to any other security?). Aside from that, I don't see anyone else using gold instead of interest-generating assets (stocks, bonds, real estate).