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How would your situation change, if item number 2 was no longer there. (ie, your wife became a contractor) I think that is the largest concern/tipping point for

How would your situation change, if item number 2 was no longer there. (ie, your wife became a contractor) I think that is the largest concern/tipping point for most people..

Consultant32452 9y ago
Single father and consultant of 5 years here. It's easy if you're conservative/responsible with your money. Buy health insurance, get short and long term disability. Keep 6 months of expenses in your emergency fund. Don't have any consumer debt. I think the hardest part for most people is being able to not burn through their money as fast as they get it.
- dgabriel 9y ago
  But possibly not easy for an Uber driver, rather than a highly skilled tech worker.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    The national average income for Uber drivers is about $20/hr. That's plenty to live off of. The average in Detroit is only $9/hr. That's a tough place to be, but not unique to consulting or gig jobs.
    - rectang 9y ago
      Are you factoring business expenses into that $20/hr, or are you confusing raw revenue with income, and failing to take into account all the risk that Uber offloads onto its contractors? If you're confused, then you have a lot in common with many Uber drivers!
      - Consultant32452 9y ago
        Yes, that national average of $20/hr is after expenses. That language, offloads, is loaded. This idea that it's someone else's responsibility to handle even the most trivial of life's decisions for us is toxic. If you don't understand the basic concepts around running a small business, there's plenty of books on the subject in the library.
        rectang 9y ago
        > Yes, that national average of $20/hr is after expenses. Where on earth is that number coming from? Uber? https://www.buzzfeed.com/carolineodonovan/internal-uber-driver-pay-numbers https://www.buzzfeed.com/carolineodonovan/internal-uber-driv... "In early 2015, a study commissioned by Uber found that drivers in 20 cities, including New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Boston, were grossing around $17 an hour.... But the $17-an-hour figure was based on data from 2014, when Uber rates in most cities were higher than they were in late 2015. It was also based on gross earnings and did not account for driver expenses."
        Consultant32452 9y ago
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/27/how-much-uber-drivers-actually-make-per-hour/?utm_term=.58ee266c5a08 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/27... This is from an article complaining about how little Uber drivers make... >But in three large metropolitan cities, drivers make far less than the national average, about $20 per hour, after expenses.
        rectang 9y ago
        That Washington Post article is garbage. It cites as the source of its numbers, the Buzzfeed article I quoted. But the only place the number "$20" appears in the Buzzfeed article is this: "None of these advertisements mention driver expenses. The same goes for the alerts Uber sends to drivers — sometimes five times a day or more — telling them that other drivers on the road were making $20 or $30 an hour in gross fares."
        Consultant32452 9y ago
        Okay, so the first google result I found had an inflated number. I don't really get what point you're trying to get to. If you think I'm arguing Uber is a good/lucrative place to work, I'm not.
        9y ago
- rectang 9y ago
  It's also expensive, inconvenient, time-consuming, and risky to be poor. None of the suggestions you make are "easy" for poor people. Consider how much time, energy, and expertise it takes even to research disability insurance and buy the appropriate product.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    There are basically two options for disability insurance, 50% or 75% of what you currently make. I'm sure there's other options, but those are the default choices. The minutia of what's covered basically the same across the industry and if you just choose the first provider you talk to it's not really different than getting it from your employer where you had no choice of providers or coverage. The big barrier is realizing you have personal agency and can do basic things like shop.
    - rectang 9y ago
      > The big barrier is realizing you have personal agency and can do basic things like shop. This argument reminds me of web designers who blame users for the mistakes they make when presented with a horrible user interface -- that there is no system so terrible that the user can't be a moral failure, 100% responsible for their own misfortune.
      - Consultant32452 9y ago
        The difference between you and me is that you believe poor people are stupid and I don't. Otherwise you wouldn't have felt the need to qualify how difficult it would be for "poor people" to figure out how to buy disability insurance, a product that's largely off the shelf.
        rectang 9y ago
        No, the difference is that I factor in structural factors that keep people poor, while you pretend they don't exist.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  Keep 6 months of expenses in your emergency fund. You have to have sufficient income to consistently cover basics with money leftover. Some people simply don't have that.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    The vast majority of people do have that. Whether or not they behave in an financially responsible manner is a different question altogether.
    - DoreenMichele 9y ago
      Given the high cost of healthcare in the US, the lack of affordable housing and other constraints, no, this is not merely an issue of lack of personal restraint.
      - Consultant32452 9y ago
        Are we trying to talk about an average person who might be considering branching out on their own or are we going to try to solve every problem for a blind one legged cancer patient? For the average person it very much is a matter of adopting different behaviors including but not limited to personal financial restraint.
- TheCoelacanth 9y ago
  It's so easy. All you have to do is make plenty of money. Why didn't those stupid poor people think of that?
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    You are making a lot of assumptions about my current income and how much I have made historically. I did all of those things except buy my own health insurance when I was working inside at a pizza place, that means I was making less than people who deliver pizzas for a living.
grasshopperpurp 9y ago
Seems like the OP is making enough money that it wouldn't be a significant issue - assuming the OP is living within his/her means. It's the 3rd point ($$) that differentiates the OP from the vast majority - as far as I can tell.
neogodless 9y ago
I think the real tipping point is income level as an independent worker. Personally, I'm in software and got a 60% pay increase when I jumped to 1099. My wife didn't have health insurance offered before, and she still doesn't. But the $680/month I'm paying is easily covered by the increased income. (I was paying around $300/month even when my employer offered health insurance. And my coverage is actually much better now.) But I'm not a typical contractor, just a typical software contractor.
- chatmasta 9y ago
  Are you paying 680/mo for just yourself or both you and your wife? That seems like a really high number, but maybe that’s the privilege of youth talking...
  - neogodless 9y ago
    We are 38/33 and that's medical for both. Additional $57 for vision/dental (optional, of course). This is in PA. I was unsuccessful in using the marketplace, and in my county there's basically only one insurance provider any more. So I get quotes from them directly. On the bright side, it's good coverage. We could save $150/mo, but the deductibles go through the roof. Since we are child-bearing age (and my eyes are terrible), we prefer better coverage.

How would your situation change, if item number 2 was no longer there. (ie, your wife became a contractor) I think that is the largest concern/tipping point for most people..

Consultant32452 9y ago

Single father and consultant of 5 years here. It's easy if you're conservative/responsible with your money. Buy health insurance, get short and long term disability. Keep 6 months of expenses in your emergency fund. Don't have any consumer debt. I think the hardest part for most people is being able to not burn through their money as fast as they get it.

dgabriel 9y ago
But possibly not easy for an Uber driver, rather than a highly skilled tech worker.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  The national average income for Uber drivers is about $20/hr. That's plenty to live off of. The average in Detroit is only $9/hr. That's a tough place to be, but not unique to consulting or gig jobs.
  - rectang 9y ago
    Are you factoring business expenses into that $20/hr, or are you confusing raw revenue with income, and failing to take into account all the risk that Uber offloads onto its contractors? If you're confused, then you have a lot in common with many Uber drivers!
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      Yes, that national average of $20/hr is after expenses. That language, offloads, is loaded. This idea that it's someone else's responsibility to handle even the most trivial of life's decisions for us is toxic. If you don't understand the basic concepts around running a small business, there's plenty of books on the subject in the library.
      - rectang 9y ago
        > Yes, that national average of $20/hr is after expenses. Where on earth is that number coming from? Uber? https://www.buzzfeed.com/carolineodonovan/internal-uber-driver-pay-numbers https://www.buzzfeed.com/carolineodonovan/internal-uber-driv... "In early 2015, a study commissioned by Uber found that drivers in 20 cities, including New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Boston, were grossing around $17 an hour.... But the $17-an-hour figure was based on data from 2014, when Uber rates in most cities were higher than they were in late 2015. It was also based on gross earnings and did not account for driver expenses."
        Consultant32452 9y ago
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/27/how-much-uber-drivers-actually-make-per-hour/?utm_term=.58ee266c5a08 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/27... This is from an article complaining about how little Uber drivers make... >But in three large metropolitan cities, drivers make far less than the national average, about $20 per hour, after expenses.
        rectang 9y ago
        That Washington Post article is garbage. It cites as the source of its numbers, the Buzzfeed article I quoted. But the only place the number "$20" appears in the Buzzfeed article is this: "None of these advertisements mention driver expenses. The same goes for the alerts Uber sends to drivers — sometimes five times a day or more — telling them that other drivers on the road were making $20 or $30 an hour in gross fares."
        Consultant32452 9y ago
        Okay, so the first google result I found had an inflated number. I don't really get what point you're trying to get to. If you think I'm arguing Uber is a good/lucrative place to work, I'm not.
        9y ago
rectang 9y ago
It's also expensive, inconvenient, time-consuming, and risky to be poor. None of the suggestions you make are "easy" for poor people. Consider how much time, energy, and expertise it takes even to research disability insurance and buy the appropriate product.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  There are basically two options for disability insurance, 50% or 75% of what you currently make. I'm sure there's other options, but those are the default choices. The minutia of what's covered basically the same across the industry and if you just choose the first provider you talk to it's not really different than getting it from your employer where you had no choice of providers or coverage. The big barrier is realizing you have personal agency and can do basic things like shop.
  - rectang 9y ago
    > The big barrier is realizing you have personal agency and can do basic things like shop. This argument reminds me of web designers who blame users for the mistakes they make when presented with a horrible user interface -- that there is no system so terrible that the user can't be a moral failure, 100% responsible for their own misfortune.
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      The difference between you and me is that you believe poor people are stupid and I don't. Otherwise you wouldn't have felt the need to qualify how difficult it would be for "poor people" to figure out how to buy disability insurance, a product that's largely off the shelf.
      - rectang 9y ago
        No, the difference is that I factor in structural factors that keep people poor, while you pretend they don't exist.
DoreenMichele 9y ago
Keep 6 months of expenses in your emergency fund. You have to have sufficient income to consistently cover basics with money leftover. Some people simply don't have that.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  The vast majority of people do have that. Whether or not they behave in an financially responsible manner is a different question altogether.
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    Given the high cost of healthcare in the US, the lack of affordable housing and other constraints, no, this is not merely an issue of lack of personal restraint.
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      Are we trying to talk about an average person who might be considering branching out on their own or are we going to try to solve every problem for a blind one legged cancer patient? For the average person it very much is a matter of adopting different behaviors including but not limited to personal financial restraint.
TheCoelacanth 9y ago
It's so easy. All you have to do is make plenty of money. Why didn't those stupid poor people think of that?
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  You are making a lot of assumptions about my current income and how much I have made historically. I did all of those things except buy my own health insurance when I was working inside at a pizza place, that means I was making less than people who deliver pizzas for a living.

grasshopperpurp 9y ago

Seems like the OP is making enough money that it wouldn't be a significant issue - assuming the OP is living within his/her means. It's the 3rd point ($$) that differentiates the OP from the vast majority - as far as I can tell.

neogodless 9y ago

I think the real tipping point is income level as an independent worker. Personally, I'm in software and got a 60% pay increase when I jumped to 1099. My wife didn't have health insurance offered before, and she still doesn't. But the $680/month I'm paying is easily covered by the increased income. (I was paying around $300/month even when my employer offered health insurance. And my coverage is actually much better now.) But I'm not a typical contractor, just a typical software contractor.

chatmasta 9y ago
Are you paying 680/mo for just yourself or both you and your wife? That seems like a really high number, but maybe that’s the privilege of youth talking...
- neogodless 9y ago
  We are 38/33 and that's medical for both. Additional $57 for vision/dental (optional, of course). This is in PA. I was unsuccessful in using the marketplace, and in my county there's basically only one insurance provider any more. So I get quotes from them directly. On the bright side, it's good coverage. We could save $150/mo, but the deductibles go through the roof. Since we are child-bearing age (and my eyes are terrible), we prefer better coverage.