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Freemasons and Ritual Murder: The Story of William Morgan
- equalunique 9y agoI don't know why this in on HN, but in the spirit of serendipity, I ask: Why not?
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html >On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting [...] anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
- dang 9y agoRight. The title and the domain are both a bit baity, but the historical material is off-beat and unpredictable enough to make for a good HN post, as long as the salacious aspects don't drown out the rest. Which admittedly is the likely outcome.
- nwatson 9y agoIt explores how entrenched interests might suppress knowledge or betrayal of secrets. Fully relevant here on HN, since some might employ the same means to: > avoid exposure of dark-market secrets (ownership, participants, funds flow, sources, infrastructure location etc.) > call down almighty vengeance on ransomware hackers or malicious telemarketers (a movie about the violent end of a virus-protection racket would be awesome ... I'm tired of superhero movies) > others
- microwavecamera 9y agoWell if you want to go down the rabbit hole, this is a good place to start... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due
- wl 9y agoPropaganda Due is only a good place to start if you want want to start with a group unrecognized by any other Masonic group in the world.
- ryacko 9y agoAsk if the Masons changed their signals for distress every time a lodge has their charter withdrawn.
- wl 9y agoThe signs change as you move from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Heck, in some jurisdictions, they change from lodge to lodge.
- ryacko 9y agoAnd yet everyone's knowledge of masonic signs comes from the 20,000 masons who renounced themselves and joined the anti-Masonic party? Wouldn't it be more efficient to dissolve and rebrand?
- wl 9y agoThe signs aren't all that important. shrugs The 24-inch gauge, common gavel, square, compasses, plumb, etc... those are worth studying.
- microwavecamera 9y agoIt's a secret society. Propaganda Due got caught red handed. I thinking that had something to do with why mainstream Masonic Lodges distanced themselves from Propaganda Due.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- cmelbye 9y ago[deleted]
- kstrauser 9y agoI'm a Mason. I must not be a good one because to date I've been asked to participate in exactly zero schemes.
- ryacko 9y agoI know right, it's like those JFK conspiracy theorists, I mean, what do people think, there's a yearly vote by high officials to knock off a President?
- dang 9y ago> There is currently a shadow-banned question in this thread which asks the following > How prevalent is masonry in the bay area and the startup world? That comment was killed by HN software which is based on past abuses by spammers and trolls. To my knowledge, our software hasn't been inducted into any secret societies. It's off topic to complain about killed comments and especially to post wrong speculations about why they were killed. Instead, if you see a dead comment that shouldn't be dead, vouch for it by clicking its timestamp to go to its page, then clicking 'vouch' at the top. When a dead comment gets enough vouches—often just one—it gets resurrected. This way the community gets to override decisions made both by the software and by moderators, on a comment-by-comment basis.
- cmelbye 9y ago[deleted]
- throwaway_o7dn 9y agoI think this thread answers my question. Thank you.
- deleted 9y ago
- throwaway_o7dn 9y agoHow prevalent is masonry in the bay area and the startup world?
- RhysU 9y agoAsk them [1]. It's fairly easy to hunt down a Lodge and most Lodge secretaries will answer inquiries. Who knows, you might grab a beer with someone interesting. Source: Master Mason in NY. [1] https://www.freemason.org/index.htm https://www.freemason.org/index.htm
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- throwaway_o7dn 9y agoSome more questions: Is it easier to get funding if you are a member of masonry? Are all VCs part of the fraternity? Does favouritism occur within members, and if so how do they justify having high moral values?
- tptacek 9y agoFurther questions: * Who controls the British crown? * Who keeps the metric system down? * Who keeps Atlantis off the maps? * Who keeps the Martians under wraps? * Who holds back the electric car? * Who makes Steve Guttenberg... a star? * Who robs cavefish of their sight? * Who rigs every Oscar night? Thanks in advance!
- microtherion 9y ago> Are all VCs part of the fraternity? Unlikely. The aprons would get in the way at the orgies!
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Blazespinnaker 9y agoHang on, let me get my tifnfoil hat.
- dang 9y agoWould you please stop posting unsubstantive comments here? You've done this a fair bit, and it degrades the quality of the site—both itself and by encouraging others to do the same. I'm sure you wouldn't litter in a city park. HN is also a park of sorts, so if you'd treat it with the same respect, we'd appreciate it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Blazespinnaker 9y agoPerhaps you have me confused with someone else? Looking at my history I don’t see anything particularly abusive and certainly not “unsubstantiated”.
- dang 9y agoI was thinking of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16208095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16208095 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16192384 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16192384 when I posted that. But you're right, your other history looks fine, so "a fair bit" was too strong—sorry! The word is 'unsubstantive' and we use it to mean empty comments that lower the signal/noise ratio here. The idea on HN is if you have a substantive point, to make it thoughtfully; and if not, then simply to not comment until you do.
- mundo 9y agoIs there a transcript or summary? Freemasonry is a fascinating topic with a storied and disputed history, but also a magnet for conspiracy theory lunacy.
- vidanay 9y agoMasons can barely organize a pancake breakfast, much less a conspiracy to commit murder. Source: I am a Mason in Illinois.
- jermaustin1 9y agoAre you allowed to divulge that information?
- vidanay 9y agoMasonry has far fewer secrets than Dan Brown would like you to believe.
- BjoernKW 9y agoNot the OP but I'm a Freemason, too. Anything in particular you'd like to know? There's nothing secret about Freemasonry anymore today. All the rituals are available for everyone to see and for the most part have been since Prichard's "Masonry Dissected", published in 1730: https://freemasonry.bcy.ca/ritual/prichard.pdf https://freemasonry.bcy.ca/ritual/prichard.pdf Masons don't usually talk publicly about the specifics of the ritual or the traditional tokens, words and grips. We still don't "divulge" those "secrets" (as mentioned before these are publicly known anyway) because discretion is considered a virtue. Masons also don't reveal that someone else is a Mason (simply because he might not want this to happen). Other than that many Masons will talk openly about Freemasonry.
- smrtnik 9y agoDude there are more degrees there, don't think you know anything while cleaning the lodge....
- teilo 9y agoThat is true, but the masons of today are not the masons of the 18th century. They may as well be completely different organizations. Then there's the problem of pinning a murder on an entire society vs. specific individuals who are members of said society.
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- BjoernKW 9y ago(Disclaimer: I'm a freemason. I wrote a few lines here about what it's like to be a freemason today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16153129 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16153129 If you have any questions please ask.) Now that's one convoluted podcast. Starting at conflating stonemasonry with Freemasonry (Morgan was a bricklayer by the way, which is related but not equivalent to being a stonemason), segueing into conspiracy theories and finishing off at the supposed foundations of libertarianism in the US. While for lack of reliable accounts much of what happened around William Morgan's death probably will remain uncertain William Morgan himself seems to have been a somewhat dubious character of questionable repute: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morgan_(anti-Mason) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morgan_(anti-Mason) What becomes clear from both the podcast episode and the Wikipedia article though is that much of the anti-masonic sentiment around that time was rooted in religious and political ideas that weren't exactly egalitarian but whose originators rather worried about their own position in the new society that developed in 19th century USA.
- tptacek 9y agoWhat's the win to being a mason? What's it like? It's not something I've ever thought about, and it seems like there are a couple HN people involved in it. I'd love to be educated a bit about it!
- BjoernKW 9y agoIt's about becoming a better person, the best version of yourself. Lodge meetings, which usually take place once a week, are the main component of Freemasonry. These meetings consist of open discussions (excluding arguments about party politics and religion), someone giving a talk or merely sharing experiences that are interesting or noteworthy (e.g. like dealing with an ethically difficult situation in everyday life). Once a month there's a special meeting where the actual Masonic ritual takes place. This ritual basically is an allegorical play that - not unlike some meditation techniques - can help you with finding out more about yourself and about how to use your potential to live a worthwhile life. The wins probably vary from Freemason to Freemason. Apart from the perhaps more elusive ones like finding your purpose in life I'd say becoming more mindful, especially when it comes to ethics in everyday life is something many Freemasons would mention. Being able to openly discuss difficult matters without fear of being judged is another benefit as well as being accepted regardless of your personal background or origin. Freemasonry also allows you to get to know people from all walks of life and backgrounds that otherwise you perhaps wouldn't have met. Apart from being a great way to discover new ideas this can also help with becoming more tolerant towards others who don't necessarily share your background or points of view. There are many more practical benefits, too, like becoming a better public speaker. Giving talks is encouraged and lodge meetings are a great opportunity to give talks in a comfortable environment.
- cmelbye 9y ago[deleted]
- zipotm 9y agoGood question!
- neverartful 9y agoI was a Mason for a number of years. The reality among Masons varies from jurisdiction (i.e., state) to jurisdiction and also from lodge to lodge. In other words, no single person can speak for all. What I'm saying here is just my experience. I participated in 2 different states and found the differences pretty significant between the 2 (not good or bad, just different). It was a multi-faceted experience for me (good and bad). I'm grateful that I had the experiences, but I'm also grateful to have moved on. Within the "Blue Lodge" (regular Freemasonry), there are really 2 kinds of meetings: stated (monthly, normally boring stuff), and special (typically degree conferrals). The degree conferrals was a fantastic experience for me and I'll always keep as treasured memories. There are 3 degrees: Entered Apprentice (EA), FellowCraft (FC), and Master Mason (MM). The last section of each degree has a lecture specific to the degree. I really enjoyed the lectures (and ritual if it's done really well), and most especially the one for Fellow Craft (referred to as the 'stair lecture'). The other part of Blue Lodge that's supposed to be meaningful is the friendships that you develop and spend time with your fellow brothers. Outside of the Blue Lodge are various appendant bodies (affiliated organizations): York Rite, Scottish Rite, and Shriners are the main ones. I did belong to the Scottish Rite and really enjoyed the ritual. The Scottish Rite has 32 degrees and a separate ritual for each. The rituals are essentially plays/drama intended to convey one or more traits/values. I was fortunate enough to attend Scottish Rite degrees in Guthrie, Oklahoma. The Scottish Rite temple there is beautiful and watching the degree conferrals there was the highlight of my Masonic experiences. Why am I grateful for my Masonic experiences? I got to meet some really interesting people; I got to experience the degrees/ritual, and I became a better person by internalizing some of the teachings. This last part for me was becoming more tolerant and patient. How far do the 'blood oaths' really go? I don't know. It seems that they were real long ago, but I really believe that they're 100% symbolic in the US. Is it possible that there is some super secret and nefarious inner ring? Yes, it's possible but I wouldn't bet on it. Many Masons discuss the 2 types of Masons: card-carrying Masons (registered, and carries ID card in their wallet) and real Masons (no physical proof, but it's in their heart). Ideally, the 2 types would always be one and the same, but they aren't always.