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I'm not sure I understand what value DDG is providing exactly. I use Bing with cookies and JS disabled. DDG on the other hand can't be used with JS disabled.

I'm not sure I understand what value DDG is providing exactly. I use Bing with cookies and JS disabled. DDG on the other hand can't be used with JS disabled. Before you say that privacy is about cookies and JS has no bearing in it, think that Google for example uses all kinds of JS to gather information about your browser. That's extra datapoints that they gather about you.

pferde 9y ago
Of course it can be used with JS disabled: https://duckduckgo.com/html/ https://duckduckgo.com/html/
- fwdpropaganda 9y ago
  Oh thanks for that. But don't say "of course" please. Typically the stuff you're looking for should be on the front page, not hidden away in /html. In any case, I'm still waiting to understand why this is better than using any other search engine with cookies and JS turned off.
  - pferde 9y ago
    Yes, I agree that the JS-less version could be more discoverable. I learned about it years ago when DDG was new, in some online discussion forum - perhaps even here on HN - and have been using it via a keyworded bookmark ever since. I never even visit their title page.
    - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
      > via a keyworded bookmark I'm trying to get this working on Firefox right now. Doesn't work for some reason. I'm trying to associate keyword "d" with duckduckgo.com/html, but instead I just land on duckduckgo.com/html itself.
      - pferde 9y ago
        I did it with right-click on the text box, and "Add a Keyword for this Search..." context menu entry.
    - trqx 9y ago
      https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-html/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-ht...
  - ohtwenty 9y ago
    it redirects to it if you've got js turned off though? at least in my case, with noscript
    - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
      Interesting. I just tried using it on the tor browser (which comes with noscript) and you're right, it does redirect. However when I access it on Firefox + umatrix with all js disabled, it doesn't. I suspect I know what it is. Possibly noscript sends some header saying that the browser doesn't have JS which causes ddg to respond with the redirect, whereas umatrix just breaks the whole thing entirely. EDIT: I just tried going to about:config and setting javascript.enabled to false, and indeed now I get redirected. This has significantly improved my view of ddg.
      - detaro 9y ago
        AFAIK it's the handling of <noscript> blocks in the HTML: if JS is on in the browser, the browser skips the block and extensions can't easily activate it after-the-fact.
      - gorhill 9y ago
        > However when I access it on Firefox + umatrix with all js disabled, it doesn't. Be sure you have the setting "Spoof <noscript> tags" enabled if you want noscript tags to be rendered when 1st-party scripts are blocked. It's a per-site setting, but you can enable it globally in the "Settings" pane in the dashboard.
        fwdpropaganda 9y ago
        Yes! You're right :-) Thank you so much for umatrix! It really has changed the way I use the internet.
  - maze-le 9y ago
    I am not so sure why you are getting different results but the page redirects me to the '/html' section when I use the search-query and explicitly forbid everything (besides html).[0] And it is readable, even if css is disabled. [0]: https://i.imgur.com/Y2SdDFQ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Y2SdDFQ.jpg
    - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16213956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16213956 and child
  - userbinator 9y ago
    https://duckduckgo.com/ https://duckduckgo.com/ redirects me to https://duckduckgo.com/lite/ https://duckduckgo.com/lite/ and that works fine with JS off.
madshiva 9y ago
I use astalavista.box.sk with cookies and JS disabled. I browse using Lynx.
yegg 9y ago
This announcement is more than private search; it's all the privacy essentials to search and browse the web -- tracker blocking, upgraded encryption, and private search (with more to come) -- all in one package, available on all major desktop browsers and mobile platforms. With regards to the search component, we actually offer two Non-JS sites: https://duckduckgo.com/html https://duckduckgo.com/html & https://duckduckgo.com/lite https://duckduckgo.com/lite. Also, turning off JS and cookies still doens't prevent a search engine from tracking you, which they can do simply by your IP address.
- fwdpropaganda 9y ago
  > With regards to the search component, we actually offer two Non-JS sites: https://duckduckgo.com/html https://duckduckgo.com/html & https://duckduckgo.com/lite https://duckduckgo.com/lite. That's quite cool, thank you. For some reason it I can't make it work with Firefox's "search keyword" (the feature of starting a query with a keyword on the smart-bar which forwards that query to the search engine of your choice) > Also, turning off JS and cookies still doens't prevent a search engine from tracking you, which they can do simply by your IP address. Sure. Some datapoints about you are easier to hide than others. So are you saying that DDG doesn't store that?
  - yegg 9y ago
    For Firefox, you need to use their plugin system -- there should be an addon just for those e.g. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-html/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-ht... On privacy, yes, -- that's our privacy policy in a nutshell: we do not collect or share any personal information -- https://duckduckgo.com/privacy https://duckduckgo.com/privacy
    - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
      Can I give you a suggestion. When someone is using ddg with JS off, I think that dgg shouldn't "redirect to non-JS site". Instead you guys should have the same page being useable without JS using the <noscript> tag. Google and Bing both have achieved that, so it's possible.

pferde 9y ago

Of course it can be used with JS disabled: https://duckduckgo.com/html/ https://duckduckgo.com/html/

fwdpropaganda 9y ago
Oh thanks for that. But don't say "of course" please. Typically the stuff you're looking for should be on the front page, not hidden away in /html. In any case, I'm still waiting to understand why this is better than using any other search engine with cookies and JS turned off.
- pferde 9y ago
  Yes, I agree that the JS-less version could be more discoverable. I learned about it years ago when DDG was new, in some online discussion forum - perhaps even here on HN - and have been using it via a keyworded bookmark ever since. I never even visit their title page.
  - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
    > via a keyworded bookmark I'm trying to get this working on Firefox right now. Doesn't work for some reason. I'm trying to associate keyword "d" with duckduckgo.com/html, but instead I just land on duckduckgo.com/html itself.
    - pferde 9y ago
      I did it with right-click on the text box, and "Add a Keyword for this Search..." context menu entry.
  - trqx 9y ago
    https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-html/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-ht...
- ohtwenty 9y ago
  it redirects to it if you've got js turned off though? at least in my case, with noscript
  - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
    Interesting. I just tried using it on the tor browser (which comes with noscript) and you're right, it does redirect. However when I access it on Firefox + umatrix with all js disabled, it doesn't. I suspect I know what it is. Possibly noscript sends some header saying that the browser doesn't have JS which causes ddg to respond with the redirect, whereas umatrix just breaks the whole thing entirely. EDIT: I just tried going to about:config and setting javascript.enabled to false, and indeed now I get redirected. This has significantly improved my view of ddg.
    - detaro 9y ago
      AFAIK it's the handling of <noscript> blocks in the HTML: if JS is on in the browser, the browser skips the block and extensions can't easily activate it after-the-fact.
    - gorhill 9y ago
      > However when I access it on Firefox + umatrix with all js disabled, it doesn't. Be sure you have the setting "Spoof <noscript> tags" enabled if you want noscript tags to be rendered when 1st-party scripts are blocked. It's a per-site setting, but you can enable it globally in the "Settings" pane in the dashboard.
      - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
        Yes! You're right :-) Thank you so much for umatrix! It really has changed the way I use the internet.
- maze-le 9y ago
  I am not so sure why you are getting different results but the page redirects me to the '/html' section when I use the search-query and explicitly forbid everything (besides html).[0] And it is readable, even if css is disabled. [0]: https://i.imgur.com/Y2SdDFQ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Y2SdDFQ.jpg
  - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16213956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16213956 and child
- userbinator 9y ago
  https://duckduckgo.com/ https://duckduckgo.com/ redirects me to https://duckduckgo.com/lite/ https://duckduckgo.com/lite/ and that works fine with JS off.

madshiva 9y ago

I use astalavista.box.sk with cookies and JS disabled. I browse using Lynx.

yegg 9y ago

This announcement is more than private search; it's all the privacy essentials to search and browse the web -- tracker blocking, upgraded encryption, and private search (with more to come) -- all in one package, available on all major desktop browsers and mobile platforms. With regards to the search component, we actually offer two Non-JS sites: https://duckduckgo.com/html https://duckduckgo.com/html & https://duckduckgo.com/lite https://duckduckgo.com/lite. Also, turning off JS and cookies still doens't prevent a search engine from tracking you, which they can do simply by your IP address.

fwdpropaganda 9y ago
> With regards to the search component, we actually offer two Non-JS sites: https://duckduckgo.com/html https://duckduckgo.com/html & https://duckduckgo.com/lite https://duckduckgo.com/lite. That's quite cool, thank you. For some reason it I can't make it work with Firefox's "search keyword" (the feature of starting a query with a keyword on the smart-bar which forwards that query to the search engine of your choice) > Also, turning off JS and cookies still doens't prevent a search engine from tracking you, which they can do simply by your IP address. Sure. Some datapoints about you are easier to hide than others. So are you saying that DDG doesn't store that?
- yegg 9y ago
  For Firefox, you need to use their plugin system -- there should be an addon just for those e.g. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-html/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-ht... On privacy, yes, -- that's our privacy policy in a nutshell: we do not collect or share any personal information -- https://duckduckgo.com/privacy https://duckduckgo.com/privacy
  - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
    Can I give you a suggestion. When someone is using ddg with JS off, I think that dgg shouldn't "redirect to non-JS site". Instead you guys should have the same page being useable without JS using the <noscript> tag. Google and Bing both have achieved that, so it's possible.