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It illustrates how ludicrous the idea of being taxed for a fork is (along with taxes on crypto not exchanged for fiat in general). I had never even heard of mos

It illustrates how ludicrous the idea of being taxed for a fork is (along with taxes on crypto not exchanged for fiat in general). I had never even heard of most of the forks discussed in this article. Were I a holder of BTC, how am I supposed to pay taxes on the "wealth" "generated" from forks I didn't even know existed?

tehlike 9y ago
The idea of crypto taxation (besides forks) is same as stocks. Thus, selling crypto for fiat is same as selling crypto to buy another crypto tax wise. Taxation in general is not a happy event, but it is consistent in this case.
- deleted 9y ago
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- raybayfay 9y ago
  Once again - you expect people to somehow magically track the value on 20 hard forks in 2017, many are scam / not listed on US sites / unclear value, and on the 50 hard forks in 2018? Not possible - not feasible - and goes counter to what many EAs and CPAs are advising their clients. People need to stop giving "couch" advise without considering the consequences.
  - tehlike 9y ago
    Best effort. If you went the lengths to "cash it out" because it was free money, you should pay someone to keep track of it for you, if you don't intend to. Wasn't the whole point of bitcoin that it was auditable? IF you know and want to use a fork for something, you can figure out the exact price fork has happened. IF you don't know, you have plausible deniability.
    - raybayfay 9y ago
      Responded somewhere else; but to be fair hard forks should be unrealized gain with 0 cap gains. IF/when someone wants to cash out is when they should pay the tax. It resolves the bad actor issue with scam coins; meets the need to pay tax on gains and ultimately saves everyone in bitcoin land (or other crypto for that matter) from inadvertently not declaring income. It's a win win for everyone; including the IRS. This is the most common sense approach and it stuns me that many of the couch / tax advisers are positioning otherwise.
      - tehlike 9y ago
        I agree with this, and i hope this is how hard forks are taxed. It makes sense to me.
- kmkemp 9y ago
  Also, many cryptos' primary use case is a replacement for fiat that isn't centrally controlled. Saying that you shouldn't pay taxes on crypto to crypto is similar to saying that you shouldn't pay taxes at all.
  - Cyberdog 9y ago
    Tax avoidance is one of the benefits of using cryptocurrency as a currency. Yeah, I'll say it. But what is bitcoin except a database plus some math equations? By "owning" bitcoin, you have a cryptographic key which lets you do certain operations on the database. At what point does this all get abstracted far enough from real money that it becomes ludicrous to tax it? Obviously, the US government and most cryptocurrency users have widely differing opinions on that.
    - tehlike 9y ago
      Most cryptocurrency users are chasing their own moon. I agree that it's not practical to do book keeping if you want to buy real world goods with crypto (you cannot keep calculating capital gains everytime you buy a coffee with it), but that's not the common use today _anyway_. This is also the exact reason why it's taxed the way its taxed. There's no way government is gonna let you build wealth without paying taxes. Private key is surely a database password that lets you do certain operations, but that exact feature make it an asset. As long as you can buy "things" that has value with it, it's a capital you need to pay taxes on. It's hard, but it's what it is.
      - Cyberdog 9y ago
        I personally think cryptocurrency is more interesting as a currency than as an investment. I want "Satoshi's vision" to catch on. But you're right, the reality is that many are using it as an investment instead, so now, I suppose, it's being regulated like one. Unfortunately, at the same time that we solve some of the problems making usage as a currency impractical (even if one of those solutions is just Bitcoin Core becoming an outdated relic), regulations treating it as an investment will hamper its adoption. Oh well. I have faith the tech will win in the end.
deleted 9y ago
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yock 9y ago
This seems to be a greater indictment of taxation in general rather than the notion of an asset created to represent something of value in the market. An unscrupulous state actor could manipulate this system to their advantage.

tehlike 9y ago

The idea of crypto taxation (besides forks) is same as stocks. Thus, selling crypto for fiat is same as selling crypto to buy another crypto tax wise. Taxation in general is not a happy event, but it is consistent in this case.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
raybayfay 9y ago
Once again - you expect people to somehow magically track the value on 20 hard forks in 2017, many are scam / not listed on US sites / unclear value, and on the 50 hard forks in 2018? Not possible - not feasible - and goes counter to what many EAs and CPAs are advising their clients. People need to stop giving "couch" advise without considering the consequences.
- tehlike 9y ago
  Best effort. If you went the lengths to "cash it out" because it was free money, you should pay someone to keep track of it for you, if you don't intend to. Wasn't the whole point of bitcoin that it was auditable? IF you know and want to use a fork for something, you can figure out the exact price fork has happened. IF you don't know, you have plausible deniability.
  - raybayfay 9y ago
    Responded somewhere else; but to be fair hard forks should be unrealized gain with 0 cap gains. IF/when someone wants to cash out is when they should pay the tax. It resolves the bad actor issue with scam coins; meets the need to pay tax on gains and ultimately saves everyone in bitcoin land (or other crypto for that matter) from inadvertently not declaring income. It's a win win for everyone; including the IRS. This is the most common sense approach and it stuns me that many of the couch / tax advisers are positioning otherwise.
    - tehlike 9y ago
      I agree with this, and i hope this is how hard forks are taxed. It makes sense to me.
kmkemp 9y ago
Also, many cryptos' primary use case is a replacement for fiat that isn't centrally controlled. Saying that you shouldn't pay taxes on crypto to crypto is similar to saying that you shouldn't pay taxes at all.
- Cyberdog 9y ago
  Tax avoidance is one of the benefits of using cryptocurrency as a currency. Yeah, I'll say it. But what is bitcoin except a database plus some math equations? By "owning" bitcoin, you have a cryptographic key which lets you do certain operations on the database. At what point does this all get abstracted far enough from real money that it becomes ludicrous to tax it? Obviously, the US government and most cryptocurrency users have widely differing opinions on that.
  - tehlike 9y ago
    Most cryptocurrency users are chasing their own moon. I agree that it's not practical to do book keeping if you want to buy real world goods with crypto (you cannot keep calculating capital gains everytime you buy a coffee with it), but that's not the common use today _anyway_. This is also the exact reason why it's taxed the way its taxed. There's no way government is gonna let you build wealth without paying taxes. Private key is surely a database password that lets you do certain operations, but that exact feature make it an asset. As long as you can buy "things" that has value with it, it's a capital you need to pay taxes on. It's hard, but it's what it is.
    - Cyberdog 9y ago
      I personally think cryptocurrency is more interesting as a currency than as an investment. I want "Satoshi's vision" to catch on. But you're right, the reality is that many are using it as an investment instead, so now, I suppose, it's being regulated like one. Unfortunately, at the same time that we solve some of the problems making usage as a currency impractical (even if one of those solutions is just Bitcoin Core becoming an outdated relic), regulations treating it as an investment will hamper its adoption. Oh well. I have faith the tech will win in the end.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

yock 9y ago

This seems to be a greater indictment of taxation in general rather than the notion of an asset created to represent something of value in the market. An unscrupulous state actor could manipulate this system to their advantage.