3 ms·

Wonder if using Hetzner makes you subject to unusual German laws requiring (nearly) every site to have an "Impressum" page with contact phone number, mailing ad

Wonder if using Hetzner makes you subject to unusual German laws requiring (nearly) every site to have an "Impressum" page with contact phone number, mailing address and other data that would be uncomfortable for an individual (not a company) to disclose.

Zekio 9y ago
couldn't you in reality just use the data from WHOIS protection on a domain?
- kuschku 9y ago
  People need to actually be able to contact you with that, by letter, fax, phone, email, etc. All WHOIS protection services I’ve seen until now either ignore fax, phone and letter, or just respond with "this method of contact is ignored, please use the email"
  - dewey 9y ago
    But you can put your real data as an administrator contact on the whois entry. It doesn't always show the domain provider's information.
- kachurovskiy 9y ago
  I don't think so. German laws is very particular about what should be in there. Typical example: https://www.rockit-internet.de/impressum/ https://www.rockit-internet.de/impressum/
wukerplank 9y ago
Odd thing to note here. I've never heard of a case in Germany where the hoster would enforce this law on behalf of the state.
- dakna 9y ago
  There are plenty of lawyers who love to make money out of unlawful use of the German "Impressum" and send you an "Abmahnung" which requires you to pay fees even if you comply and change your website afterwards.
  - wukerplank 9y ago
    True, but that is solely your own responsibility. And lawyers can't do it just because they stumble over your website. Usually it's a competitor who comes after you. And even then its a civil law case - there is no threat to the hoster.
gsich 9y ago
no
darekkay 9y ago
Your server provider or server location has nothing to do with the "Impressumspflicht". For example, if you're an US citizen with an English website on a US server, but you offer any products or services for German citizens, you need an "Impressum" [0][1]. > Companies and online media outlets, such as newspapers, magazines and journals, wishing to operate within any of these countries are obliged to make this information easily available to users. This requirement also applies to legal entities registered outside of the German-speaking realm that compete on the respective German, Austrian, or Swiss markets. [0] - http://www.it-recht-kanzlei.de/nicht-eu-ausland-impressumspflicht.html http://www.it-recht-kanzlei.de/nicht-eu-ausland-impressumspf... [1] - https://www.1and1.com/digitalguide/websites/digital-law/a-case-for-thinking-global-germanys-impressum-laws/ https://www.1and1.com/digitalguide/websites/digital-law/a-ca...
- zuzun 9y ago
  You misread your source. Service providers outside the EU are not required to provide an imprint, even if their website is targeting German customers.
  - darekkay 9y ago
    I'm quite sure I read it correctly. "Fazit" point 1: You do not need an imprint if you're outside the EU and you're not targetting EU citizens. Point 2: It's the opposite, if you're outside the EU but you're targetting EU citizens. EDIT: added a source in English
    - zuzun 9y ago
      Looks like we're both kind of right. Your original source is solely based on LG Siegen 09.07.2013 - 2 O 36/13, which said service providers from non-member countries don't require an imprint and the court's decision doesn't really align with what you said. However, the ruling was overthrown by OLG Hamm 17.12.2013 - I-4 U 100/13, which actually follows your interpretation of the law.

Zekio 9y ago

couldn't you in reality just use the data from WHOIS protection on a domain?

kuschku 9y ago
People need to actually be able to contact you with that, by letter, fax, phone, email, etc. All WHOIS protection services I’ve seen until now either ignore fax, phone and letter, or just respond with "this method of contact is ignored, please use the email"
- dewey 9y ago
  But you can put your real data as an administrator contact on the whois entry. It doesn't always show the domain provider's information.
kachurovskiy 9y ago
I don't think so. German laws is very particular about what should be in there. Typical example: https://www.rockit-internet.de/impressum/ https://www.rockit-internet.de/impressum/

wukerplank 9y ago

Odd thing to note here. I've never heard of a case in Germany where the hoster would enforce this law on behalf of the state.

dakna 9y ago
There are plenty of lawyers who love to make money out of unlawful use of the German "Impressum" and send you an "Abmahnung" which requires you to pay fees even if you comply and change your website afterwards.
- wukerplank 9y ago
  True, but that is solely your own responsibility. And lawyers can't do it just because they stumble over your website. Usually it's a competitor who comes after you. And even then its a civil law case - there is no threat to the hoster.

gsich 9y ago

darekkay 9y ago

Your server provider or server location has nothing to do with the "Impressumspflicht". For example, if you're an US citizen with an English website on a US server, but you offer any products or services for German citizens, you need an "Impressum" [0][1]. > Companies and online media outlets, such as newspapers, magazines and journals, wishing to operate within any of these countries are obliged to make this information easily available to users. This requirement also applies to legal entities registered outside of the German-speaking realm that compete on the respective German, Austrian, or Swiss markets. [0] - http://www.it-recht-kanzlei.de/nicht-eu-ausland-impressumspflicht.html http://www.it-recht-kanzlei.de/nicht-eu-ausland-impressumspf... [1] - https://www.1and1.com/digitalguide/websites/digital-law/a-case-for-thinking-global-germanys-impressum-laws/ https://www.1and1.com/digitalguide/websites/digital-law/a-ca...

zuzun 9y ago
You misread your source. Service providers outside the EU are not required to provide an imprint, even if their website is targeting German customers.
- darekkay 9y ago
  I'm quite sure I read it correctly. "Fazit" point 1: You do not need an imprint if you're outside the EU and you're not targetting EU citizens. Point 2: It's the opposite, if you're outside the EU but you're targetting EU citizens. EDIT: added a source in English
  - zuzun 9y ago
    Looks like we're both kind of right. Your original source is solely based on LG Siegen 09.07.2013 - 2 O 36/13, which said service providers from non-member countries don't require an imprint and the court's decision doesn't really align with what you said. However, the ruling was overthrown by OLG Hamm 17.12.2013 - I-4 U 100/13, which actually follows your interpretation of the law.