3 ms·

A well thought-out and researched response to a breathless conspiracy theory. Nicely done.

ben_w 9y ago
From here, I can’t tell which is the conspiracy theory and which (if any) is the truth. (I wonder if my complete lack of clue about what is plausible in this context is a common theme amongst conspiracy theory believers?)
- ptaipale 9y ago
  When someone writes about "a big alliance", which however is not evidenced by any public formal contracts of alliance, that is a fairly good indicator that a theory could be considered conspiratorial.
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    In this thread, both the conspiracist and the "conventional wisdom" rebuttalist seem to be talking about big alliances? As anyone who has tried to get anything done on multiple continents knows, any complicated goal (e.g., build a multinational pipeline through remote and wildly insecure areas) will tend to lose out to the interests of locals. A necessary but insufficient condition for success of such goals is to spend enough to make locals' interests coincide with one's own. The difficulties faced by this hypothetical pipeline lead one to doubt its construction would profit in the long run. The advantage of the USA military-industrial complex is that they actually DGAF what happens as a result of all of our profligate and evil war spending. The spending itself is the goal, and they're just as happy to siphon off a stream of resources supporting ISIS in Syria as off some other stream supporting Kurds in northern Iraq. That's why our international policy (and the media narrative carefully curated to provide cover for it) is so schizophrenic. We believe in democracy!/Down with Morsi!/We DGAF!/War! That is a big conspiracy, but nobody wants to talk about that.
- dalbasal 9y ago
  Welcome to Middle East politics. The people who live here are in the same boat with rumours and complex theories about who is in cahootz and what they really want. In truth, I think the ME is a relatively uncoordinated place. All these different motivations and intesrests exist. Thhe pipeline idea is real-ish, the Qatari support for "extremist Islamists" is too, though Saudis support Islamists too when it lines up. So, it's hard to entirety dismiss or disprove any of these overarching motivation theories. The US and Russia have always proxy-fought in the region, but they never really knew what they wanted there. My thought is that there is no coherent actor, just a mishmash of interests, ideologies and unpredictable chaos.
guilhas 9y ago
Yes this stuff has been endlessly thought-out and researched. Obviously USA and Saudi Arabia are there fighting for freedom and human rights! * Sarcasm * in case it is not clear

From here, I can’t tell which is the conspiracy theory and which (if any) is the truth. (I wonder if my complete lack of clue about what is plausible in this context is a common theme amongst conspiracy theory believers?)

ptaipale 9y ago
When someone writes about "a big alliance", which however is not evidenced by any public formal contracts of alliance, that is a fairly good indicator that a theory could be considered conspiratorial.
- jessaustin 9y ago
  In this thread, both the conspiracist and the "conventional wisdom" rebuttalist seem to be talking about big alliances? As anyone who has tried to get anything done on multiple continents knows, any complicated goal (e.g., build a multinational pipeline through remote and wildly insecure areas) will tend to lose out to the interests of locals. A necessary but insufficient condition for success of such goals is to spend enough to make locals' interests coincide with one's own. The difficulties faced by this hypothetical pipeline lead one to doubt its construction would profit in the long run. The advantage of the USA military-industrial complex is that they actually DGAF what happens as a result of all of our profligate and evil war spending. The spending itself is the goal, and they're just as happy to siphon off a stream of resources supporting ISIS in Syria as off some other stream supporting Kurds in northern Iraq. That's why our international policy (and the media narrative carefully curated to provide cover for it) is so schizophrenic. We believe in democracy!/Down with Morsi!/We DGAF!/War! That is a big conspiracy, but nobody wants to talk about that.
dalbasal 9y ago
Welcome to Middle East politics. The people who live here are in the same boat with rumours and complex theories about who is in cahootz and what they really want. In truth, I think the ME is a relatively uncoordinated place. All these different motivations and intesrests exist. Thhe pipeline idea is real-ish, the Qatari support for "extremist Islamists" is too, though Saudis support Islamists too when it lines up. So, it's hard to entirety dismiss or disprove any of these overarching motivation theories. The US and Russia have always proxy-fought in the region, but they never really knew what they wanted there. My thought is that there is no coherent actor, just a mishmash of interests, ideologies and unpredictable chaos.

guilhas 9y ago

Yes this stuff has been endlessly thought-out and researched. Obviously USA and Saudi Arabia are there fighting for freedom and human rights! * Sarcasm * in case it is not clear