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We really should up the place of Chinese in our school systems as well. Especially with Brexit in mind. There is really no reason for it to be native > English

We really should up the place of Chinese in our school systems as well. Especially with Brexit in mind. There is really no reason for it to be native > English > German/French > Chinese anymore.

learc83 9y ago
Chinese is many times harder to learn than the other languages you mentioned for Native English speakers. It takes about 4 times as long as French and Spanish to become proficient. Given the amount of time kids spend on foreign languages in school, there's no way they're learning enough Mandarin to be useful. I took Mandarin as an undergrad, and I can understand more Spanish despite having never studied it.
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  Too late. Mandarin and Chinese in general requires a slightly different way of thinking that is better and way more easily absorbed when young. 10k ideograms is not that hard compared to say 7k words needed to have basic fluency in English. You would need about twice as much to be considered reasonably fluent. Grammar is relatively easy, proper pronunciation is much more critical than in English.
  - learc83 9y ago
    10k? If I'm remembering correctly even educated Chinese people don't know that many. I'm also unaware of research showing that Chinese is comparatively better absorbed when young.
    - netheril96 9y ago
      Every language is easier to learn when you are young, especially before five years young.
      - learc83 9y ago
        Yes. I said comparatively easier.
  - maze-le 9y ago
    Its never "Too late", its just a bit harder.
- eksemplar 9y ago
  We’re not native English speakers, English is our second/third language. Chinese is also already available in our schools. It’s just not a high priority. It’s on par with Spanish, Greek, Russian, Japanese and some such. This doesn’t correlate to the importance Chinese has on our society these days though. English used to be the most important language, these days it’s German and Chinese and I see nothing on the horizon to change that outlook, so it’s kind of silly to weigh it’s importance in our school system as low as Korean or Greek. I realize it’s harder to learn, but that’s what schools are for. I mean, when I was young we didn’t teach English until the 4th grade, these days we start teaching English by age 6 and everyone learns 3-4 languages.
  - learc83 9y ago
    You've not mentioned where you're from. You're on an American site, and you talked about Brexit, so I assumed British or American. >English used to be the most important language, these days it’s German and Chinese I'm having a very hard time thinking of a country where both German and Chinese are more important than English. Where is this?
    - orf 9y ago
      China and Germany?
      - smcl 9y ago
        Chinese is more important than English in Germany, and German is important than English in China? Remember the point the GP was trying to make was that it's hard to imagine a country where both languages are by some measure more important than English.
    - rypskar 9y ago
      >You're on an American site No, that isn't really how the internet works. The site is owned by an American company, but HN is an international site with visitors from all around the world
- yorwba 9y ago
  You can absolutely learn enough Mandarin to be useful in 2 years of weekly classes. Source: That was my level when I went to China. I felt not at all ready, but then I discovered that my limited knowledge could get me quite far with a little effort.
  - learc83 9y ago
    Useful isn't an objective metric for language competency. Cramming for a few weeks before visiting a country is useful. It takes the average fully trained foreign service officer who already speaks multiple languages about 2200 hours to become proficient. And this is 2200 hours at arguably the best language school in the world doing nothing but studying Chinese full time. 2 years of of Weekly classes is about 100 hours of class time.
    - yorwba 9y ago
      You were the one who was talking about usefulness. While it may not be an objective metric, it's still what everyone evaluates their language ability on: whether they can use it to talk to people. The bar for diplomats is much higher, since they need to be fluent enough to avoid a diplomatic incident. Would you trust someone with 2 years of high-school French to speak that well? That said, I agree that Chinese is more difficult than most other languages; mostly due to the writing system, which even Chinese schools spread over multiple years for good reason. But that is no argument against offering the language anyway.

We really should up the place of Chinese in our school systems as well. Especially with Brexit in mind. There is really no reason for it to be native > English > German/French > Chinese anymore.

learc83 9y ago

Chinese is many times harder to learn than the other languages you mentioned for Native English speakers. It takes about 4 times as long as French and Spanish to become proficient. Given the amount of time kids spend on foreign languages in school, there's no way they're learning enough Mandarin to be useful. I took Mandarin as an undergrad, and I can understand more Spanish despite having never studied it.

AstralStorm 9y ago
Too late. Mandarin and Chinese in general requires a slightly different way of thinking that is better and way more easily absorbed when young. 10k ideograms is not that hard compared to say 7k words needed to have basic fluency in English. You would need about twice as much to be considered reasonably fluent. Grammar is relatively easy, proper pronunciation is much more critical than in English.
- learc83 9y ago
  10k? If I'm remembering correctly even educated Chinese people don't know that many. I'm also unaware of research showing that Chinese is comparatively better absorbed when young.
  - netheril96 9y ago
    Every language is easier to learn when you are young, especially before five years young.
    - learc83 9y ago
      Yes. I said comparatively easier.
- maze-le 9y ago
  Its never "Too late", its just a bit harder.
eksemplar 9y ago
We’re not native English speakers, English is our second/third language. Chinese is also already available in our schools. It’s just not a high priority. It’s on par with Spanish, Greek, Russian, Japanese and some such. This doesn’t correlate to the importance Chinese has on our society these days though. English used to be the most important language, these days it’s German and Chinese and I see nothing on the horizon to change that outlook, so it’s kind of silly to weigh it’s importance in our school system as low as Korean or Greek. I realize it’s harder to learn, but that’s what schools are for. I mean, when I was young we didn’t teach English until the 4th grade, these days we start teaching English by age 6 and everyone learns 3-4 languages.
- learc83 9y ago
  You've not mentioned where you're from. You're on an American site, and you talked about Brexit, so I assumed British or American. >English used to be the most important language, these days it’s German and Chinese I'm having a very hard time thinking of a country where both German and Chinese are more important than English. Where is this?
  - orf 9y ago
    China and Germany?
    - smcl 9y ago
      Chinese is more important than English in Germany, and German is important than English in China? Remember the point the GP was trying to make was that it's hard to imagine a country where both languages are by some measure more important than English.
  - rypskar 9y ago
    >You're on an American site No, that isn't really how the internet works. The site is owned by an American company, but HN is an international site with visitors from all around the world
yorwba 9y ago
You can absolutely learn enough Mandarin to be useful in 2 years of weekly classes. Source: That was my level when I went to China. I felt not at all ready, but then I discovered that my limited knowledge could get me quite far with a little effort.
- learc83 9y ago
  Useful isn't an objective metric for language competency. Cramming for a few weeks before visiting a country is useful. It takes the average fully trained foreign service officer who already speaks multiple languages about 2200 hours to become proficient. And this is 2200 hours at arguably the best language school in the world doing nothing but studying Chinese full time. 2 years of of Weekly classes is about 100 hours of class time.
  - yorwba 9y ago
    You were the one who was talking about usefulness. While it may not be an objective metric, it's still what everyone evaluates their language ability on: whether they can use it to talk to people. The bar for diplomats is much higher, since they need to be fluent enough to avoid a diplomatic incident. Would you trust someone with 2 years of high-school French to speak that well? That said, I agree that Chinese is more difficult than most other languages; mostly due to the writing system, which even Chinese schools spread over multiple years for good reason. But that is no argument against offering the language anyway.