4 ms·

>Because European know-how and industry, and thus competitive advantage, gets lost. Is your assumption here that no non-europeans (including the Chinese) have

by ksk 9y ago

>Because European know-how and industry, and thus competitive advantage, gets lost. Is your assumption here that no non-europeans (including the Chinese) have contributed to solar research? >by a combination of slavery-backed price dumping, industrial espionage, knowledge-transfer extortions (aka "to do business in China you have to find a local partner and work with them") and outright buying of the shells of doomed European companies. You will need to provide massive objective evidence (i.e. not 2-3 links from googling "china solar" ) before anyone believes that giant assertion. Personally, I neither want a $5000 made in USA iPhone or a $99 bottom of the barrel chiPhone, but YMMV.

mschuster91 9y ago
> You will need to provide massive objective evidence (i.e. not 2-3 links from googling "china solar" ) before anyone believes that giant assertion. * "slavery-backed price dumping": There have been more than enough reports on the gruesome working conditions in Chinese factories. They are so widespread and notorious, they got dedicated their own Simpsons "couch gag" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEki-IBdop8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEki-IBdop8). And yes, I consider this dumping - because a company that operates to Western working conditions has no way of competition against people with 80-hour workweeks, armies of children and adhering to safety protocols. * For industrial espionage, the same (e.g. Nortel, Dupont, Transrapid, Volkswagen/First Automotive Works, plus countless cases in the German Mittelstand - even the German Constitution Protection Bureau warns about this: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/verfassungsschutz-china-spionage-101.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/verfassungsschutz-china-spi...). According to a (bit dated, though) report, up to half of Mittelstand companies have reported Chinese cyber-espionage: http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/industriespionage-was-chinas-hacker-versprechen-wert-ist-1.2715745 http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/industriespionage-was-... * For buying shells of doomed European companies, have a look at e.g. https://www.morgenpost.de/wirtschaft/article207409333/Chinesische-Investoren-auf-Einkaufstour-in-Europa.html https://www.morgenpost.de/wirtschaft/article207409333/Chines... - companies from as humble as trash burner EEW to such household names as Krauss-Maffei and Syngenta.
- ksk 9y ago
  Your assertion - "China has brought European solar, steel and electronics production to its knees" via X,Y,Z is a very broad assertion. Your evidence for that is merely circumstantial. You expect the reader to connect the dots with the underlying subtext of "well, what else could this mean". Sorry, but this is not a serious way to put forth such an argument. Granted, I too, realistically cant expect a PhD dissertation in a HN comment, but then again, I'm not the one putting forth that argument.

by ksk 9y ago

mschuster91 9y ago

> You will need to provide massive objective evidence (i.e. not 2-3 links from googling "china solar" ) before anyone believes that giant assertion. * "slavery-backed price dumping": There have been more than enough reports on the gruesome working conditions in Chinese factories. They are so widespread and notorious, they got dedicated their own Simpsons "couch gag" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEki-IBdop8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEki-IBdop8). And yes, I consider this dumping - because a company that operates to Western working conditions has no way of competition against people with 80-hour workweeks, armies of children and adhering to safety protocols. * For industrial espionage, the same (e.g. Nortel, Dupont, Transrapid, Volkswagen/First Automotive Works, plus countless cases in the German Mittelstand - even the German Constitution Protection Bureau warns about this: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/verfassungsschutz-china-spionage-101.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/verfassungsschutz-china-spi...). According to a (bit dated, though) report, up to half of Mittelstand companies have reported Chinese cyber-espionage: http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/industriespionage-was-chinas-hacker-versprechen-wert-ist-1.2715745 http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/industriespionage-was-... * For buying shells of doomed European companies, have a look at e.g. https://www.morgenpost.de/wirtschaft/article207409333/Chinesische-Investoren-auf-Einkaufstour-in-Europa.html https://www.morgenpost.de/wirtschaft/article207409333/Chines... - companies from as humble as trash burner EEW to such household names as Krauss-Maffei and Syngenta.

ksk 9y ago
Your assertion - "China has brought European solar, steel and electronics production to its knees" via X,Y,Z is a very broad assertion. Your evidence for that is merely circumstantial. You expect the reader to connect the dots with the underlying subtext of "well, what else could this mean". Sorry, but this is not a serious way to put forth such an argument. Granted, I too, realistically cant expect a PhD dissertation in a HN comment, but then again, I'm not the one putting forth that argument.