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If the human race was a bit more functional, we might already be living in a Star Trek-level near-utopia. A great thing about being alive today is knowing how

If the human race was a bit more functional, we might already be living in a Star Trek-level near-utopia. A great thing about being alive today is knowing how much less humans will suffer in the future. A tough part of being alive today is knowing that you're likely to miss out on it, and will instead suffer greatly. Our descendants will pity us for lacking medical technology the same way we pity our ancestors.

linkmotif 9y ago
Depends on your perspective. Bioethics exist in the West because people here have cared to ask some very sensible questions about what it means to be human, and the trade offs we make as we become post human. > Our descendants will pity us for lacking medical technology the same way we pity our ancestors. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe our descendants will be homogenous near-automatons, the product of normalizing and optimizing humanity to something that today we wouldn’t even recognize as human. I’m glad the West is “hampered” by bioethics. China is generally not hampered by ethics or advanced social thought of any kind. God bless them.
- stanfordkid 9y ago
  "Advanced Social Thought" is really just a western pseudonym for "the shadows of judeo-christian morality". I wouldn't be so quick to under-estimate them so quickly. Chinese art & philosophy is just as profound as those in the west. America may seem secular but our attitudes towards death and the individual are the result of our Christian roots.
  - linkmotif 9y ago
    Definitely what you’re saying about China, especially historically, is true. Thanks for leaving your comment, to acknowledge this. But these days what they’re doing is end-of-days stuff in my opinion even without bringing Judeo-Christian morality into the mix. Mass collecting DNA to catch criminals. Etching IDs onto knives. Convenient—yes. Desirable socially? Questionable. (America doesn’t seem secular. I am, however, excitedly watching it progressing back to paganism. Who knows where that will shake out though.)
  - musage 9y ago
    > "To them, violence, power, cruelty, were the supreme capacities of men who had definitely lost their place in the universe and were much too proud to long for a power theory that would safely bring them back and reintegrate them into the world. They were satisfied with blind partisanship in anything that respectable society had banned, regardless of theory or content, and they elevated cruelty to a major virtue because it contradicted society’s humanitarian and liberal hypocrisy." -- Hannah Arendt Where you see a "shadow" or something "hampering", I see a railing. Where you hear criticism of the jealous people left behind, I am waving at a dot that is getting smaller and smaller.
    - stanfordkid 9y ago
      I think it was more of a reactive comment: It's funny to uphold moral superiority towards a people that have never conquered nor been conquered. I think comparing it to the philosophy of the Nazi's is a bit of a stretch. I do see your point though -- but everything exists on a spectrum. As a dominant superpower it's pretty easy for the west to hold the moral high-horse in things like this but seems hypocritical when you look at the big picture of the results of our dominance (imperialism over the past millennium). I think China has the ambitions to be a superpower and they have a willingness to cut corners to get to that point. Smart authoritarians are a short-term optimal system of governance and that is the type of rule that China finds itself under currently. My thought is that the cutting of corners is not so much inhumane as it is cutting through bureaucracy, intelligently, done by smart leaders with a definite vision of the future.
- blackrock 9y ago
  > China is generally not hampered by ethics or advanced social thought of any kind. Hold on. You really need to avoid saying things like this. It is a generalization. And you will get into trouble with it.
jackstraw14 9y ago
It's interesting that you pity our ancestors. They got you here.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- BrandoElFollito 9y ago
  I do not understand this comment. What is the link between them getting me there and le thinking that their tooth extraction without anesthesia was, wow, I prefer not to think about that?
hh3k0 9y ago
> A great thing about being alive today is knowing how much less humans will suffer in the future. A tough part of being alive today is knowing that you're likely to miss out on it, and will instead suffer greatly. Ah, no need to worry about that just yet. Future generations will most likely have their fair share of suffering thanks to climate change and pollution.
- geowwy 9y ago
  We have plenty of problems in our own time too. Obesity, metabolic disease and cardiovascular disease are out of control and we seem to have no idea how to fix it. Rates of unhappiness are as high as they've ever been and people are becoming increasingly reliant on psychiatric drugs. It's also not guaranteed that increased automation and AI will be a net benefit. We could easily end up with an economy run almost exclusively by robots, where the only humans needed are those who are technically minded enough to program, design and service the robots, where everyone else is left massively underemployed.
  - cageface 9y ago
    Our leading killers are heavily correlated with diet, and we know what diets most effectively fight them: https://nutritionfacts.org/introduction/ https://nutritionfacts.org/introduction/ Lucky for us the healthiest diets also seem to have a strong positive effect on mood & depression. The healthiest diets also have a much lighter carbon footprint than the typical American diet.
scandox 9y ago
> If the human race was a bit more functional, we might already be living in a Star Trek-level near-utopia. This presupposes that the problems of FTL travel, effectively harnessing sources of more or less unlimited energy and creating hard AI are intriniscally soluble if we just "apply" ourselves. Maybe they're not and we're locked into a limited system both in terms of resources and intellectual perception. In which case time really will be the fire in which we burn.

linkmotif 9y ago

Depends on your perspective. Bioethics exist in the West because people here have cared to ask some very sensible questions about what it means to be human, and the trade offs we make as we become post human. > Our descendants will pity us for lacking medical technology the same way we pity our ancestors. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe our descendants will be homogenous near-automatons, the product of normalizing and optimizing humanity to something that today we wouldn’t even recognize as human. I’m glad the West is “hampered” by bioethics. China is generally not hampered by ethics or advanced social thought of any kind. God bless them.

stanfordkid 9y ago
"Advanced Social Thought" is really just a western pseudonym for "the shadows of judeo-christian morality". I wouldn't be so quick to under-estimate them so quickly. Chinese art & philosophy is just as profound as those in the west. America may seem secular but our attitudes towards death and the individual are the result of our Christian roots.
- linkmotif 9y ago
  Definitely what you’re saying about China, especially historically, is true. Thanks for leaving your comment, to acknowledge this. But these days what they’re doing is end-of-days stuff in my opinion even without bringing Judeo-Christian morality into the mix. Mass collecting DNA to catch criminals. Etching IDs onto knives. Convenient—yes. Desirable socially? Questionable. (America doesn’t seem secular. I am, however, excitedly watching it progressing back to paganism. Who knows where that will shake out though.)
- musage 9y ago
  > "To them, violence, power, cruelty, were the supreme capacities of men who had definitely lost their place in the universe and were much too proud to long for a power theory that would safely bring them back and reintegrate them into the world. They were satisfied with blind partisanship in anything that respectable society had banned, regardless of theory or content, and they elevated cruelty to a major virtue because it contradicted society’s humanitarian and liberal hypocrisy." -- Hannah Arendt Where you see a "shadow" or something "hampering", I see a railing. Where you hear criticism of the jealous people left behind, I am waving at a dot that is getting smaller and smaller.
  - stanfordkid 9y ago
    I think it was more of a reactive comment: It's funny to uphold moral superiority towards a people that have never conquered nor been conquered. I think comparing it to the philosophy of the Nazi's is a bit of a stretch. I do see your point though -- but everything exists on a spectrum. As a dominant superpower it's pretty easy for the west to hold the moral high-horse in things like this but seems hypocritical when you look at the big picture of the results of our dominance (imperialism over the past millennium). I think China has the ambitions to be a superpower and they have a willingness to cut corners to get to that point. Smart authoritarians are a short-term optimal system of governance and that is the type of rule that China finds itself under currently. My thought is that the cutting of corners is not so much inhumane as it is cutting through bureaucracy, intelligently, done by smart leaders with a definite vision of the future.
blackrock 9y ago
> China is generally not hampered by ethics or advanced social thought of any kind. Hold on. You really need to avoid saying things like this. It is a generalization. And you will get into trouble with it.

jackstraw14 9y ago

It's interesting that you pity our ancestors. They got you here.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
BrandoElFollito 9y ago
I do not understand this comment. What is the link between them getting me there and le thinking that their tooth extraction without anesthesia was, wow, I prefer not to think about that?

hh3k0 9y ago

> A great thing about being alive today is knowing how much less humans will suffer in the future. A tough part of being alive today is knowing that you're likely to miss out on it, and will instead suffer greatly. Ah, no need to worry about that just yet. Future generations will most likely have their fair share of suffering thanks to climate change and pollution.

geowwy 9y ago
We have plenty of problems in our own time too. Obesity, metabolic disease and cardiovascular disease are out of control and we seem to have no idea how to fix it. Rates of unhappiness are as high as they've ever been and people are becoming increasingly reliant on psychiatric drugs. It's also not guaranteed that increased automation and AI will be a net benefit. We could easily end up with an economy run almost exclusively by robots, where the only humans needed are those who are technically minded enough to program, design and service the robots, where everyone else is left massively underemployed.
- cageface 9y ago
  Our leading killers are heavily correlated with diet, and we know what diets most effectively fight them: https://nutritionfacts.org/introduction/ https://nutritionfacts.org/introduction/ Lucky for us the healthiest diets also seem to have a strong positive effect on mood & depression. The healthiest diets also have a much lighter carbon footprint than the typical American diet.

scandox 9y ago

> If the human race was a bit more functional, we might already be living in a Star Trek-level near-utopia. This presupposes that the problems of FTL travel, effectively harnessing sources of more or less unlimited energy and creating hard AI are intriniscally soluble if we just "apply" ourselves. Maybe they're not and we're locked into a limited system both in terms of resources and intellectual perception. In which case time really will be the fire in which we burn.