5 ms·

I don't think it is appropriate to blame doctors in the US for this. She was initially prescribed the drug in Berlin. The article mentions that she was in a hig

I don't think it is appropriate to blame doctors in the US for this. She was initially prescribed the drug in Berlin. The article mentions that she was in a high-risk group that should not be prescribed the drug, but it is likely that the European doctor was legitimately unaware of that. "When, back in New York, doctors refused to supply her any more, she turned to the black market, and to cheaper hard street drugs whenever she ran out of money." I think this person should take responsibility for her own mistakes, rather than trying to blame them on other people.

beat 9y ago
I don't think you quite understand how drug addiction works. It's not a simple matter of "take responsibility". Particularly since she didn't set out to be a drug addict - she was prescribed a painkiller, and took it by prescription. That has happened to rather a lot of people.
- rubicon33 9y ago
  I hate this response. It's such a classic copout and one that attempts to completely nullify any argument for personal responsibility. We just don't "understand" how drug addiction works. Right. How have some people come to believe that simply being prescribed these medications and taking them as prescribed STRIPS the patient of mental faculty to notice a problem, and renders them utterly dependent and hopeless? That's just not the case, at all. There's plenty of information available to patients about the risk of dependency and many choose to avoid it because, well, it feels good. I know some addicts. Those that are clean today are clean because (in addition to many other proactive steps) they recognized that it WAS within their power to stop. They admit and recognized that they ABUSED the medication willingly, and despite sobriety being very difficult, is still a choice they can make.
  - luckydata 9y ago
    Sounds like textbook "not understanding how addiction works" to me.
  - drb91 9y ago
    Well, nobody is arguing addiction completely strips mental agency. However, it’s also absurd assigning all the factors at play here to “self control”. That’s something you tell yourself when you don’t want to think about the problem and what would help people; that something you tell yourself to dismiss peoples suffering. If you actually have a thought that might help, it will almost certainly have to have some sort of nuanced understanding of how humans interact with drugs. You clearly lack this.
  - maym86 9y ago
    It's not just a response or opinion. It's how addiction works. Read about it. How do you feel about climate change?
    - subjectsigma 9y ago
      Please don't post such obvious bait on HN.
      - maym86 9y ago
        It was facetious to make a point. If the you are happy to ignore evidence/science because you "hate that response" your argument isn't wort much.
  - J5892 9y ago
    It's not like you can just flip a switch once you realize you have a problem. It's great that your friends were able to break free from their addiction, but there are an infinite amount of factors that can (and do) prevent others from doing so. In many cases, one second of weakness is enough to fall back into addiction after years of sobriety. Logically, sure, you recognize a problem, and you work hard to get rid of it. And many people are able to do that. But this wouldn't be a worldwide epidemic if a hard choice were the only thing standing in the way.
  - beat 9y ago
    Which is exactly what she did. She recognized there is a problem, got help, kicked the habit, and is now committing herself to changing the process that leads to people like her becoming addicted. You aren't thinking this through at all, even by your own standards.
- partycoder 9y ago
  Unless it is prescribed for the wrong reason and the dosage is incorrect, which is possible thanks to bullshit research.
civilitty 9y ago
Purdue misled doctors on the effectiveness of the recommended dosages in a way that essentially maximized the addictiveness of their drug in a clinical setting, globally. Instead of telling doctors to prescribe a more frequent dose, they told them to prescribe a larger dose less often which causes more severe withdrawals and has a higher chance of leading to physiological dependence. Doctors the world over were legitimately unaware of the risks because the manufacturer misled them.
- acct1771 9y ago
  So you're telling me medical societies...AND regulatory bodies, both asleep at the wheel?
wickawic 9y ago
Drug addiction is so bad because drugs fuck with your priorities at a very basic level. Asking someone to give up a heroin addiction is kind of like asking you to abandon your children. Sure it is physically possible to do it (not even that hard, really!) but if you have kids you know how impossible that would feel. And when you are off them, you still feel that affinity, just as you would forever miss your kids.
- amphibian87 9y ago
  You're close. I's more like if when your kids aren't around, you get sick. And it would be incredibly easy to go get your kids back. Like maybe they're just at their grandma's house or something, idk the analogy gets kinda weird. So you get sick, and not just "feeling a bit green," but fetal position, rocking back and forth, vomiting, runny nose, achy muscle sick. You'll grind your teeth and it's all you can think about, followed by weeks of insomnia. And after the initial WDing, starts Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome, 6 months to 2 years of feeling shitty (depression, insomnia, mania, restless legs, cravings). And the worst part is a simple phone call and a 20 minute drive could make everything better...at least for a little while.
  - loorinm 9y ago
    I find this a remarkably accurate description of addiction/withdrawal. “Take reaponsibility” does absolutely nothing to help, except maybe satisfy the commenter’s obvious need to feel better-than. A lot of people are born into families of addicts, myself included, and although the substance may change, it really isn’t our fault at all that they we are addicts. For most people it takes a big, dedicated support team of other people to get clean. “taking responsibility” is a good start, but it really isn’t enough.
  - hugodahl 9y ago
    There was a great "external observer" type account in a BBC article [0] a short while back. Granted it wasn't fully impartial, given the author is the mother and addict her daughter, but I believe the account to be rather telling and honest none the less. [0]: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-39212295 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-39212295

beat 9y ago

I don't think you quite understand how drug addiction works. It's not a simple matter of "take responsibility". Particularly since she didn't set out to be a drug addict - she was prescribed a painkiller, and took it by prescription. That has happened to rather a lot of people.

rubicon33 9y ago
I hate this response. It's such a classic copout and one that attempts to completely nullify any argument for personal responsibility. We just don't "understand" how drug addiction works. Right. How have some people come to believe that simply being prescribed these medications and taking them as prescribed STRIPS the patient of mental faculty to notice a problem, and renders them utterly dependent and hopeless? That's just not the case, at all. There's plenty of information available to patients about the risk of dependency and many choose to avoid it because, well, it feels good. I know some addicts. Those that are clean today are clean because (in addition to many other proactive steps) they recognized that it WAS within their power to stop. They admit and recognized that they ABUSED the medication willingly, and despite sobriety being very difficult, is still a choice they can make.
- luckydata 9y ago
  Sounds like textbook "not understanding how addiction works" to me.
- drb91 9y ago
  Well, nobody is arguing addiction completely strips mental agency. However, it’s also absurd assigning all the factors at play here to “self control”. That’s something you tell yourself when you don’t want to think about the problem and what would help people; that something you tell yourself to dismiss peoples suffering. If you actually have a thought that might help, it will almost certainly have to have some sort of nuanced understanding of how humans interact with drugs. You clearly lack this.
- maym86 9y ago
  It's not just a response or opinion. It's how addiction works. Read about it. How do you feel about climate change?
  - subjectsigma 9y ago
    Please don't post such obvious bait on HN.
    - maym86 9y ago
      It was facetious to make a point. If the you are happy to ignore evidence/science because you "hate that response" your argument isn't wort much.
- J5892 9y ago
  It's not like you can just flip a switch once you realize you have a problem. It's great that your friends were able to break free from their addiction, but there are an infinite amount of factors that can (and do) prevent others from doing so. In many cases, one second of weakness is enough to fall back into addiction after years of sobriety. Logically, sure, you recognize a problem, and you work hard to get rid of it. And many people are able to do that. But this wouldn't be a worldwide epidemic if a hard choice were the only thing standing in the way.
- beat 9y ago
  Which is exactly what she did. She recognized there is a problem, got help, kicked the habit, and is now committing herself to changing the process that leads to people like her becoming addicted. You aren't thinking this through at all, even by your own standards.
partycoder 9y ago
Unless it is prescribed for the wrong reason and the dosage is incorrect, which is possible thanks to bullshit research.

civilitty 9y ago

Purdue misled doctors on the effectiveness of the recommended dosages in a way that essentially maximized the addictiveness of their drug in a clinical setting, globally. Instead of telling doctors to prescribe a more frequent dose, they told them to prescribe a larger dose less often which causes more severe withdrawals and has a higher chance of leading to physiological dependence. Doctors the world over were legitimately unaware of the risks because the manufacturer misled them.

acct1771 9y ago
So you're telling me medical societies...AND regulatory bodies, both asleep at the wheel?

wickawic 9y ago

Drug addiction is so bad because drugs fuck with your priorities at a very basic level. Asking someone to give up a heroin addiction is kind of like asking you to abandon your children. Sure it is physically possible to do it (not even that hard, really!) but if you have kids you know how impossible that would feel. And when you are off them, you still feel that affinity, just as you would forever miss your kids.

amphibian87 9y ago
You're close. I's more like if when your kids aren't around, you get sick. And it would be incredibly easy to go get your kids back. Like maybe they're just at their grandma's house or something, idk the analogy gets kinda weird. So you get sick, and not just "feeling a bit green," but fetal position, rocking back and forth, vomiting, runny nose, achy muscle sick. You'll grind your teeth and it's all you can think about, followed by weeks of insomnia. And after the initial WDing, starts Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome, 6 months to 2 years of feeling shitty (depression, insomnia, mania, restless legs, cravings). And the worst part is a simple phone call and a 20 minute drive could make everything better...at least for a little while.
- loorinm 9y ago
  I find this a remarkably accurate description of addiction/withdrawal. “Take reaponsibility” does absolutely nothing to help, except maybe satisfy the commenter’s obvious need to feel better-than. A lot of people are born into families of addicts, myself included, and although the substance may change, it really isn’t our fault at all that they we are addicts. For most people it takes a big, dedicated support team of other people to get clean. “taking responsibility” is a good start, but it really isn’t enough.
- hugodahl 9y ago
  There was a great "external observer" type account in a BBC article [0] a short while back. Granted it wasn't fully impartial, given the author is the mother and addict her daughter, but I believe the account to be rather telling and honest none the less. [0]: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-39212295 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-39212295