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I agree that art is communication, but not all communication is art. To me, good art is a message that relies solely on argument from beauty to prove its point.

I agree that art is communication, but not all communication is art. To me, good art is a message that relies solely on argument from beauty to prove its point. So any art that looks ugly to someone is self-defeating in their eyes, because it throws away its only weapon. The artists that speak to me most (like Pushkin, Orwell, Hunter Thompson, Andrew Hussie, davesecretary...) are keen observers of their time and have strong opinions, but they play fair in a sense. They make their points of view aesthetically compelling and stop there. What they can't say with beauty, they don't say at all. Anything more forceful is closer to a Fox News editorial than to art.

andybak 9y ago
> any art that looks ugly to someone > Orwell, Hunter Thompson Orwell looks ugly to someone. Hunter Thompson looks ugly to someone Remember Room 101 in 1984? Have you read "Hells Angels"? These aren't uncontroversial works of "beauty". You are mistaking your personal aesthetic judgement for objective standards.
- cousin_it 9y ago
  I'm not sure we disagree? My original comment said public art that looks ugly to many people is harming them, so elites should stop pushing it. Then Matt said art shouldn't be concerned with beauty. I disagreed, and argued that artists should try to express their ideas with beauty. That standard (whether the artist tried to achieve subjective beauty) is actually objective. For example, we know that Hunter Thompson tried to create something beautiful according to him. After all, many other people found his work beautiful, and that can't happen by accident. Another example of such attitude in modern art is Rothko. I'm not a fan of his paintings, but he clearly went to extreme lengths in pursuit of beauty, and I can easily imagine how someone could fall in love with them. Compare that to many artists today who don't try to express their ideas with beauty. They explicitly say as much. Read Matt's comments: beauty is merely "design", winning power games is what matters... That trend is causing the current wave of public art that looks ugly to almost everyone.

andybak 9y ago

> any art that looks ugly to someone > Orwell, Hunter Thompson Orwell looks ugly to someone. Hunter Thompson looks ugly to someone Remember Room 101 in 1984? Have you read "Hells Angels"? These aren't uncontroversial works of "beauty". You are mistaking your personal aesthetic judgement for objective standards.

cousin_it 9y ago
I'm not sure we disagree? My original comment said public art that looks ugly to many people is harming them, so elites should stop pushing it. Then Matt said art shouldn't be concerned with beauty. I disagreed, and argued that artists should try to express their ideas with beauty. That standard (whether the artist tried to achieve subjective beauty) is actually objective. For example, we know that Hunter Thompson tried to create something beautiful according to him. After all, many other people found his work beautiful, and that can't happen by accident. Another example of such attitude in modern art is Rothko. I'm not a fan of his paintings, but he clearly went to extreme lengths in pursuit of beauty, and I can easily imagine how someone could fall in love with them. Compare that to many artists today who don't try to express their ideas with beauty. They explicitly say as much. Read Matt's comments: beauty is merely "design", winning power games is what matters... That trend is causing the current wave of public art that looks ugly to almost everyone.