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This does not seem good. The world has never really reconciled the biological and chemical atrocities that went on in Asia during WWII and since, like they hav

This does not seem good. The world has never really reconciled the biological and chemical atrocities that went on in Asia during WWII and since, like they have in Europe. The Japanese used chemical gas attacks (munitions of unexploded gas are still found in China today) and did live vivesections on prisoners, amputating their appendages until there was nothing left. Hitler’s SS thought the atrocities so bad in China they asked for permission to intervene at several points. I doubt China has forgotten any of this, as they are expanding funding by several orders of magnitude into research on Japanese WWII atrocities. To the north, Russia supposedly developed a type of chemical weapon even more powerful than nerve gas at one point in the 70’s. After the Cold War, while everyone was worried about nuclear weapons, Soviet bio and chemical scientists were easily available for hire and research. The Japanese cult that dumped Sarin into the Tokyo subway in 1996 had gotten far towards procuring many nerve agents as well as biological agents this way (developing powder to spread live agents that survived for weeks proved too difficult though). Everyone talks about nuclear weapons, but biological, and to a lesser degree chemical, weapons have been under the radar for so long, governed by treaties that intellectually are still in 1918, that this needs to be looked at very seriously.

tpaschalis 9y ago
Isn't it possible that less regulation can help propel research, for "good" goals? I think that in 2018, novel medical applications would be far more profitable than a biological weapons, and in the end of the day, that's what matters to companies. For example, I'm not sure that in USA it would be possible for a terminally ill patient can opt-in to a dangerous/risky/experimental new form of treatment, while it could save thousands of others if successful.
- sampo 9y ago
  Even if the patient themselves agrees to the experimental treatment, but then dies, maybe even in a gruesome manner, is it still possible for the patient's family to sue the biotech startup for large sums of money?
qiqing 9y ago
Actually, this isn't what the article is about at all, though I can see how you would go this direction from the title alone. The article discusses academic labs as well as biotech companies openly hiring people from all over the world, and publishing their findings in journals. It talks about curing diseases, drug discovery, the lack of availability in China of some medications, and the career incentives for taking your biologist career to China. These are researchers publishing findings that everyone can read (modulo paywalls from some scientific publishers). What this article is about: potentially taking a research job in China as a biologist (as a reader of Nature). What this article is not about at all: shadowy military labs working on weapons. Excerpt: "Just a decade ago, when China-born scientists with overseas experience began returning to the country, lured by their homeland’s fast growth and growing financial means, they found a drug industry dominated by generics. Undeterred, they got busy building the infrastructure for an industry capable of drug discovery and development, buoyed by substantial government support and a thriving economy."
devy 9y ago
> The world has never really reconciled the biological and chemical atrocities that went on in Asia during WWII and since, like they have in Europe. Correct, it hasn't reconciled because Japanese government never truly feel guilty for their war crimes and most of Japanese prime minister still goes to visit Yasukuni Shrine for war criminals (do you know of any shrine for Hitler that German prime ministers visit?) And then there are jerks like Toshio Motoya that openly claims Japanese WW2 war crimes and Nanking Massacre, comfort women were fabricated and selling his ridiculous book about his bullshit theories in every APA hotel room in Japan. In comparison, can you imagine any major hotel chain owner publicly claiming holocaust was fabricated? > I doubt China has forgotten any of this, as they are expanding funding by several orders of magnitude into research on Japanese WWII atrocities. Never forgotten never will, just like Jews will never holocaust and American will never forget Pearl Harbor and Japanese will never forget Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But, what substantial evidence you can provide to support your concerns of China's biotech advancement for revenge atrocity? If none, then stop trolling and let go your cold war thinkings. The Nature article is indeed a paid advertisement in Macmillan's 3rd party editorial section as it denoted on the top, but I don't see any problem using research funding and research freedom to lure more researchers working there on advancing bio-tech in China.
- fiblye 9y ago
  >Correct, it hasn't reconciled because Japanese government never truly feel guilty for their war crimes and most of Japanese prime minister still goes to visit Yasukuni Shrine for war criminals Ever consider that the reason Japan is defensive is because their opponents spread outright lies like this? Japan has apologized numerous times. Japan and Korea negotiated a deal to pay reparations in 2015, Japan paid, and it was settled and said to be finished by both countries. Then Korea had a massive scandal involving their president, a new president stepped in, and that new president said that the final deal of the previous government doesn't count anymore and so Japan hasn't actually apologized. Furthermore, Yasukuni isn't a shrine for war criminals. I go every year and I know that that's pure, absolute, undiluted bullshit propaganda spread by people looking to gain something. It's a fairly normal shinto shrine and its purpose is to enshrine everyone who died for Japan during wartime. Whether they're good or not is irrelevant. Saying Yasukuni is for war criminals is just like saying the Bible is all about endorsing slavery and murder because several people in the book committed those acts. When someone says that, it's pretty clear that they're not looking to open a friendly discussion.
tanilama 9y ago
I feel you are reading too much infowars. If anything, China is using biotech to save and extend lifes not terminating them. Why would you assume something like that by default?
whooshee 9y ago
I can see your concern, but when was the last time you see China screwed the world up? And, to be honest, I'd never imagine China revenge and send 731 unit-like troops to Japan and do the same live-body experimentation. In history, China sent rescue team to Japan during Kantō Great Earthquake of 1923. And many parents raised children left by Japanese invaders back in 40-50s

tpaschalis 9y ago

Isn't it possible that less regulation can help propel research, for "good" goals? I think that in 2018, novel medical applications would be far more profitable than a biological weapons, and in the end of the day, that's what matters to companies. For example, I'm not sure that in USA it would be possible for a terminally ill patient can opt-in to a dangerous/risky/experimental new form of treatment, while it could save thousands of others if successful.

sampo 9y ago
Even if the patient themselves agrees to the experimental treatment, but then dies, maybe even in a gruesome manner, is it still possible for the patient's family to sue the biotech startup for large sums of money?

qiqing 9y ago

Actually, this isn't what the article is about at all, though I can see how you would go this direction from the title alone. The article discusses academic labs as well as biotech companies openly hiring people from all over the world, and publishing their findings in journals. It talks about curing diseases, drug discovery, the lack of availability in China of some medications, and the career incentives for taking your biologist career to China. These are researchers publishing findings that everyone can read (modulo paywalls from some scientific publishers). What this article is about: potentially taking a research job in China as a biologist (as a reader of Nature). What this article is not about at all: shadowy military labs working on weapons. Excerpt: "Just a decade ago, when China-born scientists with overseas experience began returning to the country, lured by their homeland’s fast growth and growing financial means, they found a drug industry dominated by generics. Undeterred, they got busy building the infrastructure for an industry capable of drug discovery and development, buoyed by substantial government support and a thriving economy."

devy 9y ago

> The world has never really reconciled the biological and chemical atrocities that went on in Asia during WWII and since, like they have in Europe. Correct, it hasn't reconciled because Japanese government never truly feel guilty for their war crimes and most of Japanese prime minister still goes to visit Yasukuni Shrine for war criminals (do you know of any shrine for Hitler that German prime ministers visit?) And then there are jerks like Toshio Motoya that openly claims Japanese WW2 war crimes and Nanking Massacre, comfort women were fabricated and selling his ridiculous book about his bullshit theories in every APA hotel room in Japan. In comparison, can you imagine any major hotel chain owner publicly claiming holocaust was fabricated? > I doubt China has forgotten any of this, as they are expanding funding by several orders of magnitude into research on Japanese WWII atrocities. Never forgotten never will, just like Jews will never holocaust and American will never forget Pearl Harbor and Japanese will never forget Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But, what substantial evidence you can provide to support your concerns of China's biotech advancement for revenge atrocity? If none, then stop trolling and let go your cold war thinkings. The Nature article is indeed a paid advertisement in Macmillan's 3rd party editorial section as it denoted on the top, but I don't see any problem using research funding and research freedom to lure more researchers working there on advancing bio-tech in China.

fiblye 9y ago
>Correct, it hasn't reconciled because Japanese government never truly feel guilty for their war crimes and most of Japanese prime minister still goes to visit Yasukuni Shrine for war criminals Ever consider that the reason Japan is defensive is because their opponents spread outright lies like this? Japan has apologized numerous times. Japan and Korea negotiated a deal to pay reparations in 2015, Japan paid, and it was settled and said to be finished by both countries. Then Korea had a massive scandal involving their president, a new president stepped in, and that new president said that the final deal of the previous government doesn't count anymore and so Japan hasn't actually apologized. Furthermore, Yasukuni isn't a shrine for war criminals. I go every year and I know that that's pure, absolute, undiluted bullshit propaganda spread by people looking to gain something. It's a fairly normal shinto shrine and its purpose is to enshrine everyone who died for Japan during wartime. Whether they're good or not is irrelevant. Saying Yasukuni is for war criminals is just like saying the Bible is all about endorsing slavery and murder because several people in the book committed those acts. When someone says that, it's pretty clear that they're not looking to open a friendly discussion.

tanilama 9y ago

I feel you are reading too much infowars. If anything, China is using biotech to save and extend lifes not terminating them. Why would you assume something like that by default?

whooshee 9y ago

I can see your concern, but when was the last time you see China screwed the world up? And, to be honest, I'd never imagine China revenge and send 731 unit-like troops to Japan and do the same live-body experimentation. In history, China sent rescue team to Japan during Kantō Great Earthquake of 1923. And many parents raised children left by Japanese invaders back in 40-50s