3 ms·

Its a good question. I think Tesla is on to something with home Solar re chargers though. If we transition to a model where every (or sufficiently many) homes r

by pm90 9y ago

Its a good question. I think Tesla is on to something with home Solar re chargers though. If we transition to a model where every (or sufficiently many) homes rely on solar power to generate electricity, the increase in EV's wouldn't much change the demand of electricity from the grid. That seems like a great solution to prevent the grid from being the bottleneck for the growth of EV. (With self-driving cars I see an even better future: drive your car to the office, then indicate its not required for the next 8 hours. It searches for a nearby solar recharge station and drives itself, charges itself and returns by the time you need to leave. Seems like Sci-Fi right now but oh well... I can still dream )

zhjansbnas 9y ago
Using electric car batteries to smooth out load on the grid is a good idea, but there’s no need for the car to be physically proximate to electricity sources. We already have a much more efficient way of transporting power through space - the grid.
- sigstoat 9y ago
  > Using electric car batteries to smooth out load on the grid is a good idea, but there’s no need for the car to be physically proximate to electricity sources transmission losses are non-zero. so there is at least _some_ value in having the power for the air conditioner 20 feet away.
  - matte_black 9y ago
    What about some sort of electrical power hawala transaction? I provide power in some far place with my car, and in exchange the power supplier gives an equivalent amount of power to my air conditioner for free for as long as I’m providing power.
    - pm90 9y ago
      Wow that is actually a really interesting idea! The problem with that approach would be trust: to trust that both parties hold their part of the bargain. There's likely to be a cryptographic solution to ensure that though, right?
      - zhjansbnas 9y ago
        Why do we need any of this? Physics takes care of it if we just hook everyone up to a grid. Electricity pretty much finds the sources and sinks by itself if you provide capacity (it’s more complicated that that, but simpler than what you are proposing). It’s kind of like saying why don’t we pump and sell well water to one another instead of using a common water supply where the runoff from all our land goes to the same pipes.
        pm90 9y ago
        > Why do we need any of this? Physics takes care of it if we just hook everyone up to a grid. That's exactly what is the bottleneck: the grid. Operating a grid, eating transmission losses etc. cost a lot of capital and labor. Not to mention: its also a single point of failure. Whereas communication (through cellphone towers) is cheap(er). > It’s kind of like saying why don’t we pump and sell well water to one another instead of using a common water supply where the runoff from all our land goes to the same pipes. Its not the same, and I don't think its a good comparison. Solar energy is much more plentiful than groundwater, and does not require any "processing".
        zhjansbnas 9y ago
        Grid storage is the bottleneck today. You make the problem worse by splitting things up.
      - matte_black 9y ago
        Maybe this is one example of a use case for blockchain technology. With hawala the trust depends purely on a money brokers reputation.
  - zhjansbnas 9y ago
    Agreed that transmission losses are real, but I would be amazed if mechanically transporting batteries down a road were more efficient than a wire. Consider the capital cost of adding miles to roads and tires vs. running electricity through wires. You’d also decrease speed of transmission and availability - both important when we are trying to distribute load across time and space.
    - pm90 9y ago
      > but I would be amazed if mechanically transporting batteries down a road were more efficient than a wire. It is, because it doesn't require building a fucking electric pole (or run it underground: more expensive) and making sure its not cut by external factors.
      - kazinator 9y ago
        Suppose that a vehicle carrying a 1Ah battery passes a given point on the freeway every second. That's like 3600A of current! (Well, except that both positive and negative charges are present, so it's like two 3600A currents in opposite directions which cancel.)
      - zhjansbnas 9y ago
        The poles have already been built. This would only be relevant if we were considering building new construction that isn’t connected to the grid, or letting existing grid infrastructure fall apart completely. In this analogy, the wires and poles map to the road the car is driving on.
rohit2412 9y ago
While home solar is great, it is nowhere as reliable as the grid. You can have days when the sun doesn't shine. You expect the grid to bear your super heavy load (once every home goes ev and solar) on cloudy days and don't use it any other day. The grid is going to get much more costlier than you know, or there will be a hefty grid connection fee
- pm90 9y ago
  Let me be clear that I'm not advocating for getting rid of the grid. Like you said, on days when local generation doesn't meet demand, the grid will be very useful. What I'm saying is that local generation would supplement the grid; perhaps make it so that it can handle the additional loads put on it by millions of Electric Vehicles.

by pm90 9y ago

zhjansbnas 9y ago

Using electric car batteries to smooth out load on the grid is a good idea, but there’s no need for the car to be physically proximate to electricity sources. We already have a much more efficient way of transporting power through space - the grid.

sigstoat 9y ago
> Using electric car batteries to smooth out load on the grid is a good idea, but there’s no need for the car to be physically proximate to electricity sources transmission losses are non-zero. so there is at least _some_ value in having the power for the air conditioner 20 feet away.
- matte_black 9y ago
  What about some sort of electrical power hawala transaction? I provide power in some far place with my car, and in exchange the power supplier gives an equivalent amount of power to my air conditioner for free for as long as I’m providing power.
  - pm90 9y ago
    Wow that is actually a really interesting idea! The problem with that approach would be trust: to trust that both parties hold their part of the bargain. There's likely to be a cryptographic solution to ensure that though, right?
    - zhjansbnas 9y ago
      Why do we need any of this? Physics takes care of it if we just hook everyone up to a grid. Electricity pretty much finds the sources and sinks by itself if you provide capacity (it’s more complicated that that, but simpler than what you are proposing). It’s kind of like saying why don’t we pump and sell well water to one another instead of using a common water supply where the runoff from all our land goes to the same pipes.
      - pm90 9y ago
        > Why do we need any of this? Physics takes care of it if we just hook everyone up to a grid. That's exactly what is the bottleneck: the grid. Operating a grid, eating transmission losses etc. cost a lot of capital and labor. Not to mention: its also a single point of failure. Whereas communication (through cellphone towers) is cheap(er). > It’s kind of like saying why don’t we pump and sell well water to one another instead of using a common water supply where the runoff from all our land goes to the same pipes. Its not the same, and I don't think its a good comparison. Solar energy is much more plentiful than groundwater, and does not require any "processing".
        zhjansbnas 9y ago
        Grid storage is the bottleneck today. You make the problem worse by splitting things up.
    - matte_black 9y ago
      Maybe this is one example of a use case for blockchain technology. With hawala the trust depends purely on a money brokers reputation.
- zhjansbnas 9y ago
  Agreed that transmission losses are real, but I would be amazed if mechanically transporting batteries down a road were more efficient than a wire. Consider the capital cost of adding miles to roads and tires vs. running electricity through wires. You’d also decrease speed of transmission and availability - both important when we are trying to distribute load across time and space.
  - pm90 9y ago
    > but I would be amazed if mechanically transporting batteries down a road were more efficient than a wire. It is, because it doesn't require building a fucking electric pole (or run it underground: more expensive) and making sure its not cut by external factors.
    - kazinator 9y ago
      Suppose that a vehicle carrying a 1Ah battery passes a given point on the freeway every second. That's like 3600A of current! (Well, except that both positive and negative charges are present, so it's like two 3600A currents in opposite directions which cancel.)
    - zhjansbnas 9y ago
      The poles have already been built. This would only be relevant if we were considering building new construction that isn’t connected to the grid, or letting existing grid infrastructure fall apart completely. In this analogy, the wires and poles map to the road the car is driving on.

rohit2412 9y ago

While home solar is great, it is nowhere as reliable as the grid. You can have days when the sun doesn't shine. You expect the grid to bear your super heavy load (once every home goes ev and solar) on cloudy days and don't use it any other day. The grid is going to get much more costlier than you know, or there will be a hefty grid connection fee

pm90 9y ago
Let me be clear that I'm not advocating for getting rid of the grid. Like you said, on days when local generation doesn't meet demand, the grid will be very useful. What I'm saying is that local generation would supplement the grid; perhaps make it so that it can handle the additional loads put on it by millions of Electric Vehicles.