5 ms·

When will it make sense for a practical, skinflint commuter to make the switch?

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Is your commute under 40 miles round trip? You can get a Nissan Leaf today for ~$10k used, or $20k-30k new. Or a Chevy Volt, Chevy Bolt, or a reservation for a Tesla Model 3. Makes great financial sense, as it's half the cost per mile to drive an EV vs an internal combustion vehicle [1]. EDIT: I own a Nissan Leaf I paid $10k for. I charge at home (6 cents/kwh, $3 for a full charge), and my employer offers free charging at my parking garage (which I use whenever I'm not working from home). [1] http://www.umich.edu/~umtriswt/PDF/SWT-2018-1_Abstract_English.pdf http://www.umich.edu/~umtriswt/PDF/SWT-2018-1_Abstract_Engli... WARNING: PDF
- ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
  With the Tax incentive in California, a used Nissan Leaf could effectively cost $6K used now. And then if your work or city offers subsidized electric charging stations... it would definitely be worth switching now. However I think there is a real chance that a fleet of automatic driving Ubers may make ride sharing cheaper than buying an electric car for most people.
  - pkaye 9y ago
    There are tax incentives in California for used electric cars?
    - ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
      Apologies for the bad info... Tax credits for USED electric vehicles are only happening in Colorado right now. I forgot how the math on this worked out exactly. But I saw people getting the Leaf a few months ago for about that amount.
- CapitalistCartr 9y ago
  I can get a 2014 Nissan Versa in good shape with 60,000 miles for ~$7,000 here, so the maintenance and fuel savings would have to be more than $3,000.
- alkonaut 9y ago
  I pay around $1/mile to drive my (rather new) ICE car. Of that, less than a quarter is fuel. The majority is value depreciation. I haven’t seen any detailed calculations of EV ownership costs but I think it looks optimistic to hope for half the cost. Or was the “half” just the marginal cost of the last mile driven and not the TCO per year divided my miles driven?
- sokoloff 9y ago
  If you're going to buy a car anyway, it might already be today. If you're deciding between a used Nissan LEAF and a ~2005 Honda Civic, the Honda is still going to be cheaper all-in. By a lot. I daily drive a LEAF and like it a lot. It's still cost us a LOT more than my wife's 2005 CR-V over the last 3 years, because of depreciation and carrying collision insurance (due to financing the car at a 0% interest rate, but I still need to carry insurance, so the collision insurance is effectively the finance charge for me). Per mile, I pay about 0.25 kWh, which at MA electric rates comes to ~$0.05/mile for power. That would equate to a 35 mpg car buying gas at $1.75/gallon. Plus, the car needs no oil changes and is very easy on brake pads. But a 12 year old Honda (or Toyota) will be tough to beat with an electric on an all-in basis.
EngineerBetter 9y ago
Used Renault Zoes are exceptionally cheap in the UK. £69/month battery lease, and then about £2k for the car.
maxsilver 9y ago
Yesterday? If you only need typical commuter distances (less than 50 miles per day), then it's already practical to switch today. Go buy a Bolt / Volt / i3 / Leaf / Zoe / whatever. Used ones are already around, and reasonably cheap. It's only really the edge cases that aren't super practical right now. (i.e., 'what about roadtrips?', or 'what about rural lifestyles', or 'what about cross-country trips', 'what about hauling a lot of freight', etc).
- unethical_ban 9y ago
  Urban = Core Suburban, inter-city = Fringe Your point stands, but your assumptions are a bit off.
- niftich 9y ago
  Range anxiety is real, and you're underestimating its magnitude. Today, gas stations are practically ubiquitous along major population and travel corridors, so there's a huge install base of infrastructure when you're stuck in unfortunate or unusual circumstances and you need to acquire more fuel. EV-related infrastructure has a lot of catching up to do, when your EV is one traffic detour away from being inoperable, because only dozens of charging stations exist in your area.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Charging infrastructure is getting near ubiquity. https://www.tesla.com/supercharger https://www.tesla.com/supercharger https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/
  - maxsilver 9y ago
    > and you're underestimating its magnitude. I don't think I'm underestimating it. You are correct, EV infrastructure is poor or completely absent in most places. I mentioned the Volt and a i3 for precisely that reason. (I own a Volt for that reason). If you are worried about range anxiety, just buy an EV that has a gas backup generator, and you are fully covered in either situation.
- derekp7 9y ago
adrianN 9y ago
As soon as you have somewhere to charge your car? Driving electrics is already cheaper today than driving a newish ICE car.

Is your commute under 40 miles round trip? You can get a Nissan Leaf today for ~$10k used, or $20k-30k new. Or a Chevy Volt, Chevy Bolt, or a reservation for a Tesla Model 3. Makes great financial sense, as it's half the cost per mile to drive an EV vs an internal combustion vehicle [1]. EDIT: I own a Nissan Leaf I paid $10k for. I charge at home (6 cents/kwh, $3 for a full charge), and my employer offers free charging at my parking garage (which I use whenever I'm not working from home). [1] http://www.umich.edu/~umtriswt/PDF/SWT-2018-1_Abstract_English.pdf http://www.umich.edu/~umtriswt/PDF/SWT-2018-1_Abstract_Engli... WARNING: PDF

ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
With the Tax incentive in California, a used Nissan Leaf could effectively cost $6K used now. And then if your work or city offers subsidized electric charging stations... it would definitely be worth switching now. However I think there is a real chance that a fleet of automatic driving Ubers may make ride sharing cheaper than buying an electric car for most people.
- pkaye 9y ago
  There are tax incentives in California for used electric cars?
  - ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
    Apologies for the bad info... Tax credits for USED electric vehicles are only happening in Colorado right now. I forgot how the math on this worked out exactly. But I saw people getting the Leaf a few months ago for about that amount.
CapitalistCartr 9y ago
I can get a 2014 Nissan Versa in good shape with 60,000 miles for ~$7,000 here, so the maintenance and fuel savings would have to be more than $3,000.
alkonaut 9y ago
I pay around $1/mile to drive my (rather new) ICE car. Of that, less than a quarter is fuel. The majority is value depreciation. I haven’t seen any detailed calculations of EV ownership costs but I think it looks optimistic to hope for half the cost. Or was the “half” just the marginal cost of the last mile driven and not the TCO per year divided my miles driven?
sokoloff 9y ago
If you're going to buy a car anyway, it might already be today. If you're deciding between a used Nissan LEAF and a ~2005 Honda Civic, the Honda is still going to be cheaper all-in. By a lot. I daily drive a LEAF and like it a lot. It's still cost us a LOT more than my wife's 2005 CR-V over the last 3 years, because of depreciation and carrying collision insurance (due to financing the car at a 0% interest rate, but I still need to carry insurance, so the collision insurance is effectively the finance charge for me). Per mile, I pay about 0.25 kWh, which at MA electric rates comes to ~$0.05/mile for power. That would equate to a 35 mpg car buying gas at $1.75/gallon. Plus, the car needs no oil changes and is very easy on brake pads. But a 12 year old Honda (or Toyota) will be tough to beat with an electric on an all-in basis.

EngineerBetter 9y ago

Used Renault Zoes are exceptionally cheap in the UK. £69/month battery lease, and then about £2k for the car.

maxsilver 9y ago

Yesterday? If you only need typical commuter distances (less than 50 miles per day), then it's already practical to switch today. Go buy a Bolt / Volt / i3 / Leaf / Zoe / whatever. Used ones are already around, and reasonably cheap. It's only really the edge cases that aren't super practical right now. (i.e., 'what about roadtrips?', or 'what about rural lifestyles', or 'what about cross-country trips', 'what about hauling a lot of freight', etc).

unethical_ban 9y ago
Urban = Core Suburban, inter-city = Fringe Your point stands, but your assumptions are a bit off.
niftich 9y ago
Range anxiety is real, and you're underestimating its magnitude. Today, gas stations are practically ubiquitous along major population and travel corridors, so there's a huge install base of infrastructure when you're stuck in unfortunate or unusual circumstances and you need to acquire more fuel. EV-related infrastructure has a lot of catching up to do, when your EV is one traffic detour away from being inoperable, because only dozens of charging stations exist in your area.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Charging infrastructure is getting near ubiquity. https://www.tesla.com/supercharger https://www.tesla.com/supercharger https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/
- maxsilver 9y ago
  > and you're underestimating its magnitude. I don't think I'm underestimating it. You are correct, EV infrastructure is poor or completely absent in most places. I mentioned the Volt and a i3 for precisely that reason. (I own a Volt for that reason). If you are worried about range anxiety, just buy an EV that has a gas backup generator, and you are fully covered in either situation.
derekp7 9y ago

adrianN 9y ago

As soon as you have somewhere to charge your car? Driving electrics is already cheaper today than driving a newish ICE car.