4 ms·

I'm sure it's still months away but they're already performing test transactions such as buying coffee with the tech.

dmm 9y ago
There are experimental lightning network nodes on mainnet now and the first transaction has been made: https://cointelegraph.com/news/lightning-networks-pizza-day-first-ever-physical-purchase-on-lightning-network https://cointelegraph.com/news/lightning-networks-pizza-day-... Here's a map of the LN network. So far there are about 100 nodes: https://lnmainnet.gaben.win/ https://lnmainnet.gaben.win/
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- nwah1 9y ago
  I'm extremely skeptical that they can solve the double spending problem in a trustless way, without all the same scalability drawbacks of the blockchain. Once you insert trust and centralization, then all of the supposed benefits of the blockchain are gone, but all the shady behavior will remain and almost certainly get worse. My understanding is that it is a bit like IOUs redeemable for bitcoin. But just like with Tether and so many other supposedly-redeemable IOUs on the blockchain, there's always going to be serious doubts about whether there really is anything backing them.
  - dmm 9y ago
    The lightning network is(can be) trustless and decentralized. It uses time based transactions to transfer bitcoin. It does have complications though. If you send money with the LN you have to regularly(about once a week) connect and verify that no one is trying to cheat you. If you only receive through a channel you don't have to do this. In principle it's possible to delegate this to a third party. Another complication is that sending funds to an arbitrary party involves finding a path through a graph of nodes. We'll see how this works out in practice.
  - 45h34jh53k4j 9y ago
    No its not like IOUS -- thats just FUD that those big blocker bcash dweebs keep saying. LN tx's are actually bitcoin tx's. Micro ones! Proper real bitcoin segwittx's! Secured by the network. Its just they are not registered on chain until the payment channel is closed.
    - nwah1 9y ago
      If they are not registered, then what is validating their uniqueness?
      - cesarb 9y ago
        Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is: they are not unique, they are overwritten by later transactions in the same channel (if I send you $10, then you send me $5, the final transaction is equivalent to one with me sending you just $5). But the transactions are "time-locked" so they can't be registered on the chain immediately, and in such a way that if one side misbehaves, the other side can send to the chain a transaction with an earlier "time-lock"; the "time-locks" are ordered such that none of the parties involved benefit from cheating.
        nwah1 9y ago
        And who verifies the order? A trusted intermediary?
        jstanley 9y ago
        Why not do some actual research before acting like you know it can't work? Nobody verifies the order, but if you try to broadcast an intermediate state without your counterparty's permission, you can't actually spend it for 1000 (?) blocks. If your counterparty is able to present a proof that that was an intermediate state rather than the latest state then he gets to spend all of the money in the channel immediately. So all you need to do is monitor for transactions that are spending old channel states, and take all of the money if your counterparty tries to do it. This is even out-sourceable, so you could have a third-party monitoring the blockchain for old channel states and spending the money to you if anything goes wrong.

dmm 9y ago

There are experimental lightning network nodes on mainnet now and the first transaction has been made: https://cointelegraph.com/news/lightning-networks-pizza-day-first-ever-physical-purchase-on-lightning-network https://cointelegraph.com/news/lightning-networks-pizza-day-... Here's a map of the LN network. So far there are about 100 nodes: https://lnmainnet.gaben.win/ https://lnmainnet.gaben.win/

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
nwah1 9y ago
I'm extremely skeptical that they can solve the double spending problem in a trustless way, without all the same scalability drawbacks of the blockchain. Once you insert trust and centralization, then all of the supposed benefits of the blockchain are gone, but all the shady behavior will remain and almost certainly get worse. My understanding is that it is a bit like IOUs redeemable for bitcoin. But just like with Tether and so many other supposedly-redeemable IOUs on the blockchain, there's always going to be serious doubts about whether there really is anything backing them.
- dmm 9y ago
  The lightning network is(can be) trustless and decentralized. It uses time based transactions to transfer bitcoin. It does have complications though. If you send money with the LN you have to regularly(about once a week) connect and verify that no one is trying to cheat you. If you only receive through a channel you don't have to do this. In principle it's possible to delegate this to a third party. Another complication is that sending funds to an arbitrary party involves finding a path through a graph of nodes. We'll see how this works out in practice.
- 45h34jh53k4j 9y ago
  No its not like IOUS -- thats just FUD that those big blocker bcash dweebs keep saying. LN tx's are actually bitcoin tx's. Micro ones! Proper real bitcoin segwittx's! Secured by the network. Its just they are not registered on chain until the payment channel is closed.
  - nwah1 9y ago
    If they are not registered, then what is validating their uniqueness?
    - cesarb 9y ago
      Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is: they are not unique, they are overwritten by later transactions in the same channel (if I send you $10, then you send me $5, the final transaction is equivalent to one with me sending you just $5). But the transactions are "time-locked" so they can't be registered on the chain immediately, and in such a way that if one side misbehaves, the other side can send to the chain a transaction with an earlier "time-lock"; the "time-locks" are ordered such that none of the parties involved benefit from cheating.
      - nwah1 9y ago
        And who verifies the order? A trusted intermediary?
        jstanley 9y ago
        Why not do some actual research before acting like you know it can't work? Nobody verifies the order, but if you try to broadcast an intermediate state without your counterparty's permission, you can't actually spend it for 1000 (?) blocks. If your counterparty is able to present a proof that that was an intermediate state rather than the latest state then he gets to spend all of the money in the channel immediately. So all you need to do is monitor for transactions that are spending old channel states, and take all of the money if your counterparty tries to do it. This is even out-sourceable, so you could have a third-party monitoring the blockchain for old channel states and spending the money to you if anything goes wrong.