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Wrong. If you can't move your money due to capital controls, you use bitcoin to bypass those controls, and get your money into somewhere more stable, preferabl

Wrong. If you can't move your money due to capital controls, you use bitcoin to bypass those controls, and get your money into somewhere more stable, preferably something that does not have volatility of 20% per day.

vinceguidry 9y ago
Both security and stability are scarce assets. Bitcoin can provide useful alternative market offerings for both.
- reverend_gonzo 9y ago
  Bitcoin as a secure and stable asset? Maybe in the far future, but not even remotely now.
  - ThomPete 9y ago
    Who do long term investments in short terms? The whole point is that if you get in now you both gain the upside of the value plus the increasing stability. If you have enough money you can make that bet, hell even if you have less money you can still make that bet.
    - reverend_gonzo 9y ago
      Or it goes to zero. I am not against bitcoin. I have a bunch of Bitcoin. But buying bitcoin is strictly a speculative play. It is. It is not an investment: it is not a store of value. Nobody knows know what will happen ten years from. But whatever happens ten years from now, odds are that it will be very different than what is here now, and odds are that t-bills will be pretty much the same. Hence, why for long term stability you buy t-bills. If you want more risk, you buy the S&P 500. For an amount of money that you can afford to lose, and you’re willing to put it into a highly speculative position, that goes into bitcoin.
      - ThomPete 9y ago
        Or the US dollar defaults. Nobody know what happens ten years from now either. It doesn't matter that the USD have been more secure or that having a central bank have helped stabilize the currency. In the long run, ten year? who knows. Point is that Bitcoin is as solid an investment as many other things that are backed by governments. I am willing to be that crypto will be around much longer than many states and so I am keeping that in mind when I invest. I only invest long term and crypto like the US stock market is for me long-term winners. I could be wrong but today bitcoin isn't more fragile than many other currencies out there.
        Spooky23 9y ago
        You're not investing, you're speculating on a commodity that you do not understand. If your personal investment outlook is dependent on the major world currencies defaulting, you have a problem. Play with bitcoin, but don't bet your fortunes on it.
        ThomPete 9y ago
        I am betting on bitcoin and blockchain being important in the future just like I am betting on a given stock to do well in the future because of the way I believe the world is going. The major world currencies do not have to default for that to be a reality so not sure why you portray it as if that's what I said. All investments come with a risk the longer your perspective the less the risk depending on which asset we are talking about. Bitcoin/blochain is one of those that will be less risky over time unless the world moves in an anti-technology direction and I don't see that happening.
oblio 9y ago
I like how you two are presenting Bitcoin like some sort of tool for oppressed people under tyrannical regimes. I'm willing to bet that the majority of Bitcoins out there are somehow involved in money laundering for good ol' fashioned (organized) crime.
- wan23 9y ago
  The world's second-largest economy, with over a billion people and 20 percent of the total world population, has the type of capital controls that inspire people to find creative ways to move their money. That same country accounts for 60+%, a majority, of Bitcoin mining.
  - oblio 9y ago
    And that country is also riddled with corruption. I wouldn't find it that strange that even for China, a lot of that money is made illegally, even by Western standards.
ckastner 9y ago
> If you can't move your money due to capital controls, you use bitcoin to bypass those controls If I can't move $100K of my money due to capital controls, then I also can't move those $100K to buy the bitcoin I need to bypass those controls.

vinceguidry 9y ago

Both security and stability are scarce assets. Bitcoin can provide useful alternative market offerings for both.

reverend_gonzo 9y ago
Bitcoin as a secure and stable asset? Maybe in the far future, but not even remotely now.
- ThomPete 9y ago
  Who do long term investments in short terms? The whole point is that if you get in now you both gain the upside of the value plus the increasing stability. If you have enough money you can make that bet, hell even if you have less money you can still make that bet.
  - reverend_gonzo 9y ago
    Or it goes to zero. I am not against bitcoin. I have a bunch of Bitcoin. But buying bitcoin is strictly a speculative play. It is. It is not an investment: it is not a store of value. Nobody knows know what will happen ten years from. But whatever happens ten years from now, odds are that it will be very different than what is here now, and odds are that t-bills will be pretty much the same. Hence, why for long term stability you buy t-bills. If you want more risk, you buy the S&P 500. For an amount of money that you can afford to lose, and you’re willing to put it into a highly speculative position, that goes into bitcoin.
    - ThomPete 9y ago
      Or the US dollar defaults. Nobody know what happens ten years from now either. It doesn't matter that the USD have been more secure or that having a central bank have helped stabilize the currency. In the long run, ten year? who knows. Point is that Bitcoin is as solid an investment as many other things that are backed by governments. I am willing to be that crypto will be around much longer than many states and so I am keeping that in mind when I invest. I only invest long term and crypto like the US stock market is for me long-term winners. I could be wrong but today bitcoin isn't more fragile than many other currencies out there.
      - Spooky23 9y ago
        You're not investing, you're speculating on a commodity that you do not understand. If your personal investment outlook is dependent on the major world currencies defaulting, you have a problem. Play with bitcoin, but don't bet your fortunes on it.
        ThomPete 9y ago
        I am betting on bitcoin and blockchain being important in the future just like I am betting on a given stock to do well in the future because of the way I believe the world is going. The major world currencies do not have to default for that to be a reality so not sure why you portray it as if that's what I said. All investments come with a risk the longer your perspective the less the risk depending on which asset we are talking about. Bitcoin/blochain is one of those that will be less risky over time unless the world moves in an anti-technology direction and I don't see that happening.

oblio 9y ago

I like how you two are presenting Bitcoin like some sort of tool for oppressed people under tyrannical regimes. I'm willing to bet that the majority of Bitcoins out there are somehow involved in money laundering for good ol' fashioned (organized) crime.

wan23 9y ago
The world's second-largest economy, with over a billion people and 20 percent of the total world population, has the type of capital controls that inspire people to find creative ways to move their money. That same country accounts for 60+%, a majority, of Bitcoin mining.
- oblio 9y ago
  And that country is also riddled with corruption. I wouldn't find it that strange that even for China, a lot of that money is made illegally, even by Western standards.

ckastner 9y ago

> If you can't move your money due to capital controls, you use bitcoin to bypass those controls If I can't move $100K of my money due to capital controls, then I also can't move those $100K to buy the bitcoin I need to bypass those controls.