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I wish people in this thread would stop turning the discussion into a straw-man argument about Linus’s language and focus their attention to the technical and s

I wish people in this thread would stop turning the discussion into a straw-man argument about Linus’s language and focus their attention to the technical and security problems at hand. Some people are easily offended, some people easily offend, some people are direct, some people are indirect - get over it. What matters here is the quality of the code / workarounds that are being presented, by whom and what alternatives they are.

c3534l 9y ago
> I wish people in this thread would stop turning the discussion into a straw-man argument about Linus’s language and focus their attention to the technical and security problems at hand. There wasn't much of a technical and security discussion in what was posted. Linus spent his time writing about his feelings and how hurt they were that someone did something he didn't like. Very little of substance or merit was communicated. If you consistently behave like a petulant child in a leadership role, expect people to gawk at it.
- xelxebar 9y ago
  I feel like a lot of people judge Linus by some internal moral compass which just seems pointless to me. If anything is petulant and childish it's trying to control others for not fitting within some arbitrary set of personal rules. Linus does a good job at maintaining kernel development and often makes sharp technical commentary. By those measures his communication style seems to have been successful and practically helpful so far.
- IntelMiner 9y ago
  As great as it is to sit in your chair and make snide remarks about him. The Linux Kernel seems to have a proven track record of success under that role That is to say, it is the largest collaborative software project in human history No amount of Linus being a "petulant child" can disprove the results of his style
- kristjansson 9y ago
  That’s a pretty uncharitable analysis of the situation. The point of the attack are Intel’s future intentions as implied by the patches, and the degree which those intentions are at odds with Intel’s announced guidance. That seems like a very significant technical and security matter worth discussing, no matter the style of its delivery.
skwirl 9y ago
His language is why this particular post is getting such traction. This is what he does. You can't get attention for your bluntness and not have your bluntness discussed.
- floatingatoll 9y ago
  His language is not particularly new or interesting. His technical point is very interesting, as it exposes a simple question-test for evaluating Intel’s motivations as an outsider.
sangnoir 9y ago
I'm fascinated by the lack of self-awareness in your comment: "I wish people in this thread would stop talking about X and talk about Y instead. Anyway, here are my thoughts on X." -_-
- santoshalper 9y ago
  It's kind of remarkable.
- kbenson 9y ago
  Actually, if you pay close attention, nothing is said about X, where X is Linus' language. It's a more general "these sitautions exist, but let's ignore them right now because there's something else to address which is more concrete." You are correct though, in that the majority of the comment is spent at least dancing around that issue since little of substance was provided on the alternative that they suggest is more worthwhile.
arbitrage 9y ago
I was really surprised at how polite Linus was being in this e-mail, for Linus. He's obviously being very cautious and contemplative, here.
Sniffnoy 9y ago
> I wish people in this thread would stop turning the discussion into a straw-man argument about Linus’s language and focus their attention to the technical and security problems at hand. Nitpicking, since everyone can tell what you mean, but FWIW, the phrase you are looking for here is someting like "ad hominem" or "tone argument", not "straw man"; that's something completely different.
- mrmondo 9y ago
  You're completely correct - I did indeed use the wrong terminology and I've done exactly that before with characterising the change in direction of an argument as a straw-man when as you rightly point out - is not correct. Thanks for politely pulling me up on this, I do appreciate it.

c3534l 9y ago

> I wish people in this thread would stop turning the discussion into a straw-man argument about Linus’s language and focus their attention to the technical and security problems at hand. There wasn't much of a technical and security discussion in what was posted. Linus spent his time writing about his feelings and how hurt they were that someone did something he didn't like. Very little of substance or merit was communicated. If you consistently behave like a petulant child in a leadership role, expect people to gawk at it.

xelxebar 9y ago
I feel like a lot of people judge Linus by some internal moral compass which just seems pointless to me. If anything is petulant and childish it's trying to control others for not fitting within some arbitrary set of personal rules. Linus does a good job at maintaining kernel development and often makes sharp technical commentary. By those measures his communication style seems to have been successful and practically helpful so far.
IntelMiner 9y ago
As great as it is to sit in your chair and make snide remarks about him. The Linux Kernel seems to have a proven track record of success under that role That is to say, it is the largest collaborative software project in human history No amount of Linus being a "petulant child" can disprove the results of his style
kristjansson 9y ago
That’s a pretty uncharitable analysis of the situation. The point of the attack are Intel’s future intentions as implied by the patches, and the degree which those intentions are at odds with Intel’s announced guidance. That seems like a very significant technical and security matter worth discussing, no matter the style of its delivery.

skwirl 9y ago

His language is why this particular post is getting such traction. This is what he does. You can't get attention for your bluntness and not have your bluntness discussed.

floatingatoll 9y ago
His language is not particularly new or interesting. His technical point is very interesting, as it exposes a simple question-test for evaluating Intel’s motivations as an outsider.

sangnoir 9y ago

I'm fascinated by the lack of self-awareness in your comment: "I wish people in this thread would stop talking about X and talk about Y instead. Anyway, here are my thoughts on X." -_-

santoshalper 9y ago
It's kind of remarkable.
kbenson 9y ago
Actually, if you pay close attention, nothing is said about X, where X is Linus' language. It's a more general "these sitautions exist, but let's ignore them right now because there's something else to address which is more concrete." You are correct though, in that the majority of the comment is spent at least dancing around that issue since little of substance was provided on the alternative that they suggest is more worthwhile.

arbitrage 9y ago

I was really surprised at how polite Linus was being in this e-mail, for Linus. He's obviously being very cautious and contemplative, here.

Sniffnoy 9y ago

> I wish people in this thread would stop turning the discussion into a straw-man argument about Linus’s language and focus their attention to the technical and security problems at hand. Nitpicking, since everyone can tell what you mean, but FWIW, the phrase you are looking for here is someting like "ad hominem" or "tone argument", not "straw man"; that's something completely different.

mrmondo 9y ago
You're completely correct - I did indeed use the wrong terminology and I've done exactly that before with characterising the change in direction of an argument as a straw-man when as you rightly point out - is not correct. Thanks for politely pulling me up on this, I do appreciate it.