5 ms·

We should treasure it while it lasts, before PC culture silences him. And before downvoting, recall how many threads regarding Linus abusive behavior (sic) we'v

We should treasure it while it lasts, before PC culture silences him. And before downvoting, recall how many threads regarding Linus abusive behavior (sic) we've had.

sametmax 9y ago
Well, if the Linux Kernel would have been a democracy, it would not have the aspect it has today. It's a sad thing to say about the state of the human specie.
- hammock 9y ago
  Who said anything about democracy? The whole approach of private enterprise is to build up barriers (competitive advantage) AGAINST the prevailing tide. That's how positive change (differentiated goods, wealth) is created. The same can be said of free speech.
nielsabel 9y ago
> before PC culture silences him Damn you, Wintel!
- justaaron 9y ago
  finally someone made the reference :D
jimktrains2 9y ago
Pc culture? What are you talking about? Linus is pc (in that he doesn't go on misogynistic, racist, or similar rants and doesn't denigrate people for their non-technical decisions) , he's just not nice to those that should know better. While I think you've also been bitten by the "we accept everyone! (who thinks the way we do)" crowd as well, this is not the place or the way to express that frustration.
- pessimizer 9y ago
  Some people think that directness and honesty is identical to saying racist, sexist, and homophobic things. So "PC" becomes equivalent to "lying to make people like you."
  - Ygg2 9y ago
    The argument goes like this, the acerbic culture that grows around Linus is toxic towards female and (sexual/ethnic) minorities, because such contributor are disinclined to join projects where the lead can get verbally abusive. From what I've gathered the findings are based on real data.
    - theptip 9y ago
      > based on real data Citation? Sounds interesting.
      - Filligree 9y ago
        That's hardly limited to women. It's the same reason I have no intention of ever contributing to the kernel.
        PopsiclePete 9y ago
        I'd be absolutely terrified to submit a patch, ever. "What the fuck is this? This came from Satan's butt-hole. Kill whoever did this - kill them immediately, here, I'll go and find this asshole who submitted this patch, and do it for you, you lazy ingrates, why do I have to do everything around here?"
        boomboomsubban 9y ago
        This isn't some lone beginner trying to help improve Linux, this is a billion dollar company with decades of experience trying to cover their own ass. Judging by Linus' thousands of emails on the mailing lists, any reply you got would be polite and helpful.
pdpi 9y ago
Can we stop repeating this? Assertiveness and assholery are not one and the same. Linus has both in abundance, and we can decry the one without wanting the other to go away.
- crdoconnor 9y ago
  Linus "being an asshole" is what drew attention to this issue. His caustic nature is marketing of a sort. It's clearly putting additional pressure on Intel. How you feel about that depends on how you feel about them furiously trying to sweep everything under the carpet and hoping nobody notices. Personally I think his humiliation of Intel here is putting necessary pressure on them. If he couched his terms and tried to be "nice" about this they wouldn't feel nearly the same pressure.
  - pdpi 9y ago
    See it from this angle: if Linus wasn't known for flipping his lid all the time, him flipping out _this_ time would be even more impactful. Overuse makes it progressively less remarkable. I wasn't even saying that his tone on this particular instance was excessive. I was responding to the general accusation that "PC culture will silence him". There's exactly one sentence I have issues with here ("the whole hardware interface is literally mis-designed by morons"). The rest of the email is toeing the line, but manages to be forceful without being outright insulting.
    - cmyr 9y ago
      Adding another perspective: as someone who follows kernel news very casually, it's pretty near impossible for me to determine which instances of "Linus curses something/someone out" are related to actual Serious Things Deserving My Attention. There's a bit of boy-who-cried-wolf to the whole thing.
    - iagovar 9y ago
      And here you have it, in the front page of HN
    - 9y ago
watwat1 9y ago
Cant upvote this enough!

We should treasure it while it lasts, before PC culture silences him. And before downvoting, recall how many threads regarding Linus abusive behavior (sic) we've had.

sametmax 9y ago

Well, if the Linux Kernel would have been a democracy, it would not have the aspect it has today. It's a sad thing to say about the state of the human specie.

hammock 9y ago
Who said anything about democracy? The whole approach of private enterprise is to build up barriers (competitive advantage) AGAINST the prevailing tide. That's how positive change (differentiated goods, wealth) is created. The same can be said of free speech.

nielsabel 9y ago

> before PC culture silences him Damn you, Wintel!

justaaron 9y ago
finally someone made the reference :D

jimktrains2 9y ago

Pc culture? What are you talking about? Linus is pc (in that he doesn't go on misogynistic, racist, or similar rants and doesn't denigrate people for their non-technical decisions) , he's just not nice to those that should know better. While I think you've also been bitten by the "we accept everyone! (who thinks the way we do)" crowd as well, this is not the place or the way to express that frustration.

pessimizer 9y ago
Some people think that directness and honesty is identical to saying racist, sexist, and homophobic things. So "PC" becomes equivalent to "lying to make people like you."
- Ygg2 9y ago
  The argument goes like this, the acerbic culture that grows around Linus is toxic towards female and (sexual/ethnic) minorities, because such contributor are disinclined to join projects where the lead can get verbally abusive. From what I've gathered the findings are based on real data.
  - theptip 9y ago
    > based on real data Citation? Sounds interesting.
    - Filligree 9y ago
      That's hardly limited to women. It's the same reason I have no intention of ever contributing to the kernel.
      - PopsiclePete 9y ago
        I'd be absolutely terrified to submit a patch, ever. "What the fuck is this? This came from Satan's butt-hole. Kill whoever did this - kill them immediately, here, I'll go and find this asshole who submitted this patch, and do it for you, you lazy ingrates, why do I have to do everything around here?"
        boomboomsubban 9y ago
        This isn't some lone beginner trying to help improve Linux, this is a billion dollar company with decades of experience trying to cover their own ass. Judging by Linus' thousands of emails on the mailing lists, any reply you got would be polite and helpful.

pdpi 9y ago

Can we stop repeating this? Assertiveness and assholery are not one and the same. Linus has both in abundance, and we can decry the one without wanting the other to go away.

crdoconnor 9y ago
Linus "being an asshole" is what drew attention to this issue. His caustic nature is marketing of a sort. It's clearly putting additional pressure on Intel. How you feel about that depends on how you feel about them furiously trying to sweep everything under the carpet and hoping nobody notices. Personally I think his humiliation of Intel here is putting necessary pressure on them. If he couched his terms and tried to be "nice" about this they wouldn't feel nearly the same pressure.
- pdpi 9y ago
  See it from this angle: if Linus wasn't known for flipping his lid all the time, him flipping out _this_ time would be even more impactful. Overuse makes it progressively less remarkable. I wasn't even saying that his tone on this particular instance was excessive. I was responding to the general accusation that "PC culture will silence him". There's exactly one sentence I have issues with here ("the whole hardware interface is literally mis-designed by morons"). The rest of the email is toeing the line, but manages to be forceful without being outright insulting.
  - cmyr 9y ago
    Adding another perspective: as someone who follows kernel news very casually, it's pretty near impossible for me to determine which instances of "Linus curses something/someone out" are related to actual Serious Things Deserving My Attention. There's a bit of boy-who-cried-wolf to the whole thing.
  - iagovar 9y ago
    And here you have it, in the front page of HN
  - 9y ago

watwat1 9y ago

Cant upvote this enough!