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Linus, like Jobs, is a bully. He lives under the sword. The moment he stops being right, everyone will swiftly turn against them. What separates them is that

Linus, like Jobs, is a bully. He lives under the sword. The moment he stops being right, everyone will swiftly turn against them. What separates them is that they're almost never wrong. Not when they pull out "this is garbage" card. This is a difficult ability to learn. You need to stay quiet most of the time, then be a complete asshole when it's important. I really hate that aspect of our industry. But that's just hating on humanity. Apes listen to apes that shout, but only when everyone else is listening too. Otherwise you're just a dick with no influence. The key is to hate that Linus is a bully while also respecting him when he's right. It's super frustrating because I feel like any of us could have written that, and no one would care. Literally no one would listen. But Linus says it, so it bubbles to the top of HN and now we're counting our blessings for how lucky we are. Try to remember this next time someone says something that sounds crazy. Your instinct should be to suppress your skepticism and think whether it has merit. It might piss you off, but is it true? That's the important bit. And not just for design, but for everything. (I'm sure whoever came up with the current design isn't too happy about Linus calling it garbage, but they'll just have to deal with it.)

dschuetz 9y ago
I think there needs to be a clear distinction of what a bully is and what they do. Bullies are violent for no reason, for the pleasure of it. Linus is at most verbally harsh for pretty obvious reasons, the main reason being the harsh his language the more important the issue is. His attacks and critique are never on the personal basis, yet people get offended for no apparent reason instead of focusing on the issue. So, yes, it seems to be evident that those people are scared of other people who are able to speak their mind freely. People who are doing important jobs like maintaining critical code are cowards who break under the slightest hint of critical pressure (no, not all are cowards, but that's the trending issue right now). And then I read something like this above "I hate it when he's right and gets away with his bullying". The IT-industry is doomed. When criticism is being judged by how it's carried and who is criticizing rather than what is criticized and how important that is. If everything is going to shit some day then it's because someone was too scared to speak their mind.
- icelancer 9y ago
  I am a big defender of Linus, but: >> His attacks and critique are never on the personal basis This is really not true. Linus takes it way too far from time to time. The person is always in the wrong, but Linus goes well beyond what is necessary. Again, I get it and I don't mind. But he makes it personal occasionally.
  - liardiary 9y ago
    Do you have any example of him taking it too far? I don't disagree, I'm just curious.
    - soundwave106 9y ago
      I would say, er, this time, partially. On the patches pushed by David, apparently he confused an acronym, and the patch Linus ranted about being garbage may not be so garbage-y. At least, David pushed back on his messages with some of his reasoning, and a kind note to tone down the shouty (http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1801.2/05282.html http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1801.2/05282.html). Linus's rants on the general Intel situation still seem to apply. :) People get angry, it happens (a bit more with Linus than some, it's a personality flaw, but it's not like any of us are perfect). I guess the general thing is more that, for some reason, people are way too overly fascinated with Shouty Linus compared to Linus the general kernel developer. There's a lot of posts on the Linux Kernel list... but the odds of a single post from this list being shared on social media dramatically increases for every Linus swear word included.
  - dschuetz 9y ago
    "You're a moron, because of this and that issue" isn't as personal as "you're a moron, because you were born stupid, and your family is stupid too" See the distinction? It's up to the person to take it personal or not to.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
pm 9y ago
Jobs was a bully who got the big picture right, but often got the details wrong; folklore.org has plenty of stories about people going round Jobs to get shit done. Linus is abrasive, but he usually has a good explanation for why the target of his ire is a moron, e.g. everytime some coder without Linus’ experience suggests converting the kernel codebase to C++. Let’s be honest, most developers are average at best, and knowledge is our status play. Scoring points against Linus’ decisions are one way to get you noticed, which makes him a target. If I had to deal with that shit everyday, I would do my best to discourage point scorers by putting them in their place as well.
- icelancer 9y ago
  >> C++ This is the only way you can get Linus to really lose his shit. I'm surprised his comments in this Intel thing approach the level of anger he has for C++. It's my barometer for how important something is to him.
  - TuringTest 9y ago
    Has anyone suggested him to port the kernel to Rust yet? :-P
    - Ygg2 9y ago
      No, but mostly, because Redox already exists :-P
  - dfischer 9y ago
    Have an example post? Would like to read for a chuckle. :$
    - 1911z 9y ago
      http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
rootlocus 9y ago
> This is a difficult ability to learn. You need to stay quiet most of the time, then be a complete asshole when it's important. I hope you aren't under the impression that Linus stays quietly and waits for the perfect victim. > (I'm sure whoever came up with the current design isn't too happy about Linus calling it garbage, but they'll just have to deal with it.) Or maybe whoever came up with the design was aware it was garbage from inception, there's no need to pity them gratuitously.

dschuetz 9y ago

I think there needs to be a clear distinction of what a bully is and what they do. Bullies are violent for no reason, for the pleasure of it. Linus is at most verbally harsh for pretty obvious reasons, the main reason being the harsh his language the more important the issue is. His attacks and critique are never on the personal basis, yet people get offended for no apparent reason instead of focusing on the issue. So, yes, it seems to be evident that those people are scared of other people who are able to speak their mind freely. People who are doing important jobs like maintaining critical code are cowards who break under the slightest hint of critical pressure (no, not all are cowards, but that's the trending issue right now). And then I read something like this above "I hate it when he's right and gets away with his bullying". The IT-industry is doomed. When criticism is being judged by how it's carried and who is criticizing rather than what is criticized and how important that is. If everything is going to shit some day then it's because someone was too scared to speak their mind.

icelancer 9y ago
I am a big defender of Linus, but: >> His attacks and critique are never on the personal basis This is really not true. Linus takes it way too far from time to time. The person is always in the wrong, but Linus goes well beyond what is necessary. Again, I get it and I don't mind. But he makes it personal occasionally.
- liardiary 9y ago
  Do you have any example of him taking it too far? I don't disagree, I'm just curious.
  - soundwave106 9y ago
    I would say, er, this time, partially. On the patches pushed by David, apparently he confused an acronym, and the patch Linus ranted about being garbage may not be so garbage-y. At least, David pushed back on his messages with some of his reasoning, and a kind note to tone down the shouty (http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1801.2/05282.html http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1801.2/05282.html). Linus's rants on the general Intel situation still seem to apply. :) People get angry, it happens (a bit more with Linus than some, it's a personality flaw, but it's not like any of us are perfect). I guess the general thing is more that, for some reason, people are way too overly fascinated with Shouty Linus compared to Linus the general kernel developer. There's a lot of posts on the Linux Kernel list... but the odds of a single post from this list being shared on social media dramatically increases for every Linus swear word included.
- dschuetz 9y ago
  "You're a moron, because of this and that issue" isn't as personal as "you're a moron, because you were born stupid, and your family is stupid too" See the distinction? It's up to the person to take it personal or not to.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

pm 9y ago

Jobs was a bully who got the big picture right, but often got the details wrong; folklore.org has plenty of stories about people going round Jobs to get shit done. Linus is abrasive, but he usually has a good explanation for why the target of his ire is a moron, e.g. everytime some coder without Linus’ experience suggests converting the kernel codebase to C++. Let’s be honest, most developers are average at best, and knowledge is our status play. Scoring points against Linus’ decisions are one way to get you noticed, which makes him a target. If I had to deal with that shit everyday, I would do my best to discourage point scorers by putting them in their place as well.

icelancer 9y ago
>> C++ This is the only way you can get Linus to really lose his shit. I'm surprised his comments in this Intel thing approach the level of anger he has for C++. It's my barometer for how important something is to him.
- TuringTest 9y ago
  Has anyone suggested him to port the kernel to Rust yet? :-P
  - Ygg2 9y ago
    No, but mostly, because Redox already exists :-P
- dfischer 9y ago
  Have an example post? Would like to read for a chuckle. :$
  - 1911z 9y ago
    http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

rootlocus 9y ago

> This is a difficult ability to learn. You need to stay quiet most of the time, then be a complete asshole when it's important. I hope you aren't under the impression that Linus stays quietly and waits for the perfect victim. > (I'm sure whoever came up with the current design isn't too happy about Linus calling it garbage, but they'll just have to deal with it.) Or maybe whoever came up with the design was aware it was garbage from inception, there's no need to pity them gratuitously.