5 ms·

Actually that's pretty scary. Are the rest of heavy weight kernel code maintainers too stupid for than then? If it weren't for Linus' hard judgement? Would we t

Actually that's pretty scary. Are the rest of heavy weight kernel code maintainers too stupid for than then? If it weren't for Linus' hard judgement? Would we then buying badly engineered products without ever questioning?

zaptheimpaler 9y ago
Courage is in shorter supply than genius.
- oblio 9y ago
  I think I agree with sillysaurus3, it's the other way around.
sillysaurus3 9y ago
Linus, like Jobs, is a bully. He lives under the sword. The moment he stops being right, everyone will swiftly turn against them. What separates them is that they're almost never wrong. Not when they pull out "this is garbage" card. This is a difficult ability to learn. You need to stay quiet most of the time, then be a complete asshole when it's important. I really hate that aspect of our industry. But that's just hating on humanity. Apes listen to apes that shout, but only when everyone else is listening too. Otherwise you're just a dick with no influence. The key is to hate that Linus is a bully while also respecting him when he's right. It's super frustrating because I feel like any of us could have written that, and no one would care. Literally no one would listen. But Linus says it, so it bubbles to the top of HN and now we're counting our blessings for how lucky we are. Try to remember this next time someone says something that sounds crazy. Your instinct should be to suppress your skepticism and think whether it has merit. It might piss you off, but is it true? That's the important bit. And not just for design, but for everything. (I'm sure whoever came up with the current design isn't too happy about Linus calling it garbage, but they'll just have to deal with it.)
- dschuetz 9y ago
  I think there needs to be a clear distinction of what a bully is and what they do. Bullies are violent for no reason, for the pleasure of it. Linus is at most verbally harsh for pretty obvious reasons, the main reason being the harsh his language the more important the issue is. His attacks and critique are never on the personal basis, yet people get offended for no apparent reason instead of focusing on the issue. So, yes, it seems to be evident that those people are scared of other people who are able to speak their mind freely. People who are doing important jobs like maintaining critical code are cowards who break under the slightest hint of critical pressure (no, not all are cowards, but that's the trending issue right now). And then I read something like this above "I hate it when he's right and gets away with his bullying". The IT-industry is doomed. When criticism is being judged by how it's carried and who is criticizing rather than what is criticized and how important that is. If everything is going to shit some day then it's because someone was too scared to speak their mind.
  - icelancer 9y ago
    I am a big defender of Linus, but: >> His attacks and critique are never on the personal basis This is really not true. Linus takes it way too far from time to time. The person is always in the wrong, but Linus goes well beyond what is necessary. Again, I get it and I don't mind. But he makes it personal occasionally.
    - liardiary 9y ago
      Do you have any example of him taking it too far? I don't disagree, I'm just curious.
      - soundwave106 9y ago
        I would say, er, this time, partially. On the patches pushed by David, apparently he confused an acronym, and the patch Linus ranted about being garbage may not be so garbage-y. At least, David pushed back on his messages with some of his reasoning, and a kind note to tone down the shouty (http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1801.2/05282.html http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1801.2/05282.html). Linus's rants on the general Intel situation still seem to apply. :) People get angry, it happens (a bit more with Linus than some, it's a personality flaw, but it's not like any of us are perfect). I guess the general thing is more that, for some reason, people are way too overly fascinated with Shouty Linus compared to Linus the general kernel developer. There's a lot of posts on the Linux Kernel list... but the odds of a single post from this list being shared on social media dramatically increases for every Linus swear word included.

zaptheimpaler 9y ago

Courage is in shorter supply than genius.

oblio 9y ago
I think I agree with sillysaurus3, it's the other way around.

sillysaurus3 9y ago

Linus, like Jobs, is a bully. He lives under the sword. The moment he stops being right, everyone will swiftly turn against them. What separates them is that they're almost never wrong. Not when they pull out "this is garbage" card. This is a difficult ability to learn. You need to stay quiet most of the time, then be a complete asshole when it's important. I really hate that aspect of our industry. But that's just hating on humanity. Apes listen to apes that shout, but only when everyone else is listening too. Otherwise you're just a dick with no influence. The key is to hate that Linus is a bully while also respecting him when he's right. It's super frustrating because I feel like any of us could have written that, and no one would care. Literally no one would listen. But Linus says it, so it bubbles to the top of HN and now we're counting our blessings for how lucky we are. Try to remember this next time someone says something that sounds crazy. Your instinct should be to suppress your skepticism and think whether it has merit. It might piss you off, but is it true? That's the important bit. And not just for design, but for everything. (I'm sure whoever came up with the current design isn't too happy about Linus calling it garbage, but they'll just have to deal with it.)

dschuetz 9y ago
I think there needs to be a clear distinction of what a bully is and what they do. Bullies are violent for no reason, for the pleasure of it. Linus is at most verbally harsh for pretty obvious reasons, the main reason being the harsh his language the more important the issue is. His attacks and critique are never on the personal basis, yet people get offended for no apparent reason instead of focusing on the issue. So, yes, it seems to be evident that those people are scared of other people who are able to speak their mind freely. People who are doing important jobs like maintaining critical code are cowards who break under the slightest hint of critical pressure (no, not all are cowards, but that's the trending issue right now). And then I read something like this above "I hate it when he's right and gets away with his bullying". The IT-industry is doomed. When criticism is being judged by how it's carried and who is criticizing rather than what is criticized and how important that is. If everything is going to shit some day then it's because someone was too scared to speak their mind.
- icelancer 9y ago
  I am a big defender of Linus, but: >> His attacks and critique are never on the personal basis This is really not true. Linus takes it way too far from time to time. The person is always in the wrong, but Linus goes well beyond what is necessary. Again, I get it and I don't mind. But he makes it personal occasionally.
  - liardiary 9y ago
    Do you have any example of him taking it too far? I don't disagree, I'm just curious.
    - soundwave106 9y ago
      I would say, er, this time, partially. On the patches pushed by David, apparently he confused an acronym, and the patch Linus ranted about being garbage may not be so garbage-y. At least, David pushed back on his messages with some of his reasoning, and a kind note to tone down the shouty (http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1801.2/05282.html http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1801.2/05282.html). Linus's rants on the general Intel situation still seem to apply. :) People get angry, it happens (a bit more with Linus than some, it's a personality flaw, but it's not like any of us are perfect). I guess the general thing is more that, for some reason, people are way too overly fascinated with Shouty Linus compared to Linus the general kernel developer. There's a lot of posts on the Linux Kernel list... but the odds of a single post from this list being shared on social media dramatically increases for every Linus swear word included.